IPP> BOUNCE ipp@pwg.org: Non-member submission from ["TAYLOR,BOB (HP-Vancouver,ex1)" <bobt@hp.com>]

IPP> BOUNCE ipp@pwg.org: Non-member submission from ["TAYLOR,BOB (HP-Vancouver,ex1)" <bobt@hp.com>]

Danny.M.Brennan at kp.org Danny.M.Brennan at kp.org
Thu Jun 26 19:44:14 EDT 2003


Hi Tom,

To me, #2 is the issue to really focus on: is this really two semantic
concepts,
or one?  If any of these values are semantically really just additional
enumerations for
print-quality, I'd much rather we fix this than do the split it.

As for #2, what "semantic meaning would be lost or mixed" if we just
extended 
the enumeration for print-quality?  Although you can, by having these as
two attributes, specify "draft" and "photo" - in practice, this is 
virtually never done: "photo" is usually specified in one of a couple 
ways:
- my media type (i.e., photo-glossy paper model #C239847A)
- PrintQuality (quality = Photo4800DPI) - i.e., another print-quality
enumeration
If it's something other than one of these, it's usually what we call in 
PSI
capabilities a "macro feature" - i.e., it's not a real attribute sent to 
the
device, but a feature defined as a macro combination of other features -
which
I don't think is a concept currently supported by IPP.

Fundamentally, "refines the value specified by the print-quality" seems 
like
a
weak semantic differentiation, and I believe it is inconsistent with how
extensions
to the print-quality concept have been applied in at least the inkjet
segment of
the market.

thanks,

bt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hastings, Tom N [mailto:hastings at cp10.es.xerox.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:08 PM
> To: printing-driver at freestandards.org; Claudia Alimpich; ipp at pwg.org
> Cc: printing-jobticket at freestandards.org
> Subject: RE: [printing-driver] RE: [printing-jobticket] 
> Proposal to add ne w IPP print-optimize attribute
> 
> 
> Bob,
> 
> I think that the proposal to add "print-optimize" solves two 
> separate problems, not just a single problem of adding some values:
> 
> 1. Doesn't invalidate the semantics of "print-quality" (which 
> we are treating in the same way as an enumeration in JDF, 
> i.e., a closed end list, in which these are the only values 
> that can be supported: 'draft', 'normal', and 'high').
> 
> 2. The Optimize mechanism isn't really just additional print 
> quality values, but is more specific as to what to optimize. 
> Therefore, it would be wrong just to add the proposed new 
> values to "print-quality" as you suggest. Semantics meaning 
> would be lost or mixed.  (Also the "print-optimize" attribute 
> is like the JDF XxxDetails which is an extensible NMTOKEN 
> value, not an enumeration.)
> 
> Also note that "print-quality" may be used in combination 
> with "print-optimize".  So you can have 'draft', 'normal' or 
> 'high' optimization of, say, 'photo'.
> 
> ISSUE:  We didn't say that a Printer that supports 
> "print-optimize" MUST support "print-quality" as well. 
> Should we, since the definition of "print-optimize" is that 
> it "refines the value supplied (or defaulted) in "print-quality")?
> 
> Also this isn't a precedent that we can't add values to an 
> existing attribute in IPP or the Semantic Model.  It just 
> seems that for this one "print-quality" attribute both 
> reasons support not adding new values to the existing attribute.
> 
> Tom
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TAYLOR,BOB (HP-Vancouver,ex1) [mailto:bobt at hp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 17:39
> To: Claudia Alimpich; ipp at pwg.org; 
> printing-jobticket at freestandards.org;
> printing-driver at freestandards.org
> Subject: [printing-driver] RE: [printing-jobticket] Proposal 
> to add new IPP print-optimize a ttribute
> 
> 
> I understand the desire to avoid violating the semantics of 
> the IPP attribute - but adding these enumerations to 
> print-quality does not feel as objectionable to me as 
> splitting a single semantic concept into two different 
> attributes.  If this is the precedent we take for extending 
> the semantic model, I'm worried that we'll end up with an 
> increasingly confusing and complex.  I would rather we take 
> the minor hit and fix the high & draft definitions in the 
> semantic model than create another ~equivalent attribute with 
> a whole bunch of special semantic rules (e.g. - what should 
> the service do if print-quality=high and print-optimize=save-toner?).
> 
> bt
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Bob Taylor 
> Senior Architect 
> IPG Strategic Technology Development 
> Hewlett-Packard Co. 
> mailto:bobt at hp.com 
> phone: 360.212.2625/T212.2625 
> fax: 208.730-5111 
> --------------------------------------------------- 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Claudia Alimpich [mailto:alimpich at us.ibm.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:27 PM
> > To: ipp at pwg.org; printing-jobticket at freestandards.org; 
> > printing-driver at freestandards.org
> > Subject: [printing-jobticket] Proposal to add new IPP 
> > print-optimize attribute
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Last Tuesday during the PWG/FSG meeting in Portland we had a
> > discussion about the IPP print-quality attribute and FSG's 
> > desire to add two new values, "economy" and "fine", where 
> > "economy" is lower than "draft" and "fine" is higher than 
> > "high". After some discussion we all pretty much decided that 
> > it is not possible to add these new values to the already 
> > existing "draft", "normal", and "high" values because of the 
> > current definitions of the existing values (high is defined 
> > as the highest quality and draft is defined as the lowest 
> > quality). It also seemed like what FSG wanted was a way to 
> > specify print optimization and not additional levels of 
> print quality.
> > 
> > The FSG working group met today, and based on the input from
> > last Tuesday's meeting, we would like to propose the addition 
> > of a new attribute, called print-optimize, that is defined 
> as follows:
> > 
> >    print-optimize (type2 keyword)
> > 
> >       This attribute refines the value specified by the 
> print-quality
> >       attribute.
> > 
> >       The standard keyword values are:
> > 
> >          'image': optimize for image clarity
> >          'photo': optimize for photo clarity
> >          'text': optimize for text clarity
> >          'text-and-image': optimize for both text and image clarity
> >          'save-toner': optimize for minimal toner usage
> >          'speed': optimize for printing speed
> > 
> > We would appreciate your feedback on this proposal including
> > suggestions for additional values.
> > 
> > If this proposal looks good, we would like to propose that it
> > be included in the JobX Spec. If the print-optimize attribute 
> > is approved by PWG by the end of August, then we can propose 
> > that it be added to the JDF 1.2 Spec that is being finalized 
> > in early September.
> > 
> > Thank you for your time and feedback.
> > Claudia Alimpich
> > IBM Printing Systems Division
> > Boulder CO
> > 303-924-4418
> > alimpich at us.ibm.com
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > printing-jobticket mailing list printing-jobticket at freestandards.org
> > http://freestandards.org/mailman/listinfo/printing-jobticket
> > 
> 
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> 
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> 
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