From: Grant, Melinda (melinda.grant@hp.com)
Date: Thu Sep 21 2006 - 21:07:12 EDT
Hi Elliott,
> When a property and its equivalent attribute are specified, which one
wins? I don't recall seeing this anywhere, but maybe I missed it.
Since the attribute is converted into a *UA* (printer) stylesheet rule,
the *author* stylesheet rule specifying the property will override the
UA setting and win.
A note on the non-printable region issue: I have the following wording
proposed for the upcoming release:
It is recommended that user agents with a non-printable area
<outbind://90/#non-printable-area> (that is, user agents which cannot
print over the entire sheet surface) establish a default page margin via
the user agent stylesheet that includes the non-printable area. It is
further recommended that authors assume that the default page area will
not include unprintable regions.
The intent here is that authors have a tool to avoid unprintable
regions. That won't eliminate the problem you describe in #2 below, but
it hopefully limits the problem to poorly-designed pages.
Best wishes,
Melinda
________________________________
From: Elliott Bradshaw [mailto:Elliott.Bradshaw@Zoran.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:40 PM
To: Grant, Melinda; xp@pwg.org
Subject: RE: XP> Margins, borders, padding, and backgrounds
Hi Melinda,
This is very helpful. At first blush I'm inclined to agree with
all your suggestions.
I would like to raise 2 related issues for discussion by the
group:
1. When a property and its equivalent attribute are
specified, which one wins? I don't recall seeing this anywhere, but
maybe I missed it.
2. When a printer has nonprintable margins, how should we
handle them (assuming they exceed the applicable page/body margins)?
One approach is to simply clip the content, but this seems to me to run
against the spirit of "content is king". Another approach would be to
shrink to fit so that the inside-the-margins area is shrunk slightly and
perhaps shifted to fit inside the physically printable area. The
algebra is a little tricky when we are also shrinking to fit a smaller
page size, but I think this could be solved.
I'm wondering what people think about these, and whether we
should try to decide them and publish the answer somewhere. If there is
interest in shrink-to-fit for #2, I can write up a more specific
proposal.
Cheers,
Elliott
________________________________
From: owner-xp@pwg.org [mailto:owner-xp@pwg.org] On Behalf Of
Grant, Melinda
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:49 PM
To: xp@pwg.org
Subject: XP> Margins, borders, padding, and backgrounds
From HP's perspective (and I think we're not alone), the CSS
specification is difficult to interpret with respect to how margins,
borders, padding, and backgrounds work when applied to the <body> and
<html> elements. Recently we have learned that the CSS3 Paged Media
module is not clear on how the same properties used within an @page
context should interact with the html properties.
I'd like to share my new-and-improved understanding based on
discussions within the CSS WG: ;-)
* First, there are html attributes and there are css
properties. In html, the body element has a bgcolor attribute, but the
html element does not. For XHTML documents, the UA (printer) must
convert the body bgcolor attribute into an equivalent printer style
rule:
So <body bgcolor="red"> gets converted into the printer
stylesheet rule: body {background-color: red}. (This gets a bit more
complicated for HTML documents, but we don't need to go there.) This
printer stylesheet rule will be overridden by an author stylesheet rule,
should one exist. See
http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/css2-src/cascade.html#q13.
* The body element is no different when it comes to CSS
styling from any other element. Backgrounds, margins etc behave just as
they do for a div, for example.
* The html element is the root element. It can also be
selected with ':root'. It is special, in that a background is applied
to the margins as well as the content area. This is because it 'paints
the canvas', which is infinite. The only way in XHTML to put a
background in the html margin area and/or the body margin area is to use
a background on the html element. (See
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/colors.html#q2.)
* The attached file, 'margin-both.xhtml' when opened with
Firefox, provides an example of how html and body edgings should be
rendered.
There are still some open questions about how @page properties
work. I am hoping to publish a new version within the next week or so
that will resolve questions such as the following: [My proposed answers
are in brackets.]
* Is a font property set within an @page rule applied to
the page content area (unless overridden by properties set on elements
rendered on the page), or just to the contents of the page margin boxes?
[Proposed Answer: Just to the margin boxes.]
* Do the html and page margins collapse? [no]
* Are html and body borders closed at the bottom of each
page, or just at the end of the document? [Just at the end of the
document]
* Does a background property set within an @page rule get
applied to the page margins? [Yes] To the page area unless obscured by
html, body, or other backgrounds? [????, under discussion]
* On the last page of a document, do the html and body
properties terminate immediately after the last content, or at the
bottom of the page (e.g., do the html and body margins get drawn right
below the last paragraph, or at the bottom of the page? [Immediately
after content.]
* Similarly, on the last page, do the page bg, border,
etc. extend to the bottom of the page, or terminate after the last
content? [bottom of the page]
* Others?
Best regards,
Melinda
_____
HP - Melinda Grant
Connectivity Standards
Consumer Printing and Imaging
+1 (541) 582-3681
melinda.grant@hp.com
_____
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