XP Mail Archive: XP> Mandatory Landscape is not a good idea

XP> Mandatory Landscape is not a good idea for Enhanced Layout

From: ElliottBradshaw@oaktech.com
Date: Mon Feb 03 2003 - 12:40:34 EST

  • Next message: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1): "XP> February 3, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print and CSS Print Profile re leased"

    Sorry to go back and forth on this.

    Even with the position property, a printer needs to store a description of
    the whole page, but it only needs to store the size and position of each
    image...not its contents.

    If we make landscape mandatory, the printer will essentially need to buffer
    every image on the page. Exactly how it is stored will be up to the
    implementation, but there is no practical way to rotate an image without
    having all of its data in memory.

    The cost in memory to do this could be quite high, especially for a page
    with multiple camera-quality photos. Manufacturers will have a hard time
    deciding how much memory to add, and the result will have a notcieable
    effect on the cost of the final product.

    So, I suggest that we NOT make landscape mandatory.

    Note: Depending on the transport protocol the client may be able to
    determine whether a given printer can handle landscape pages. This could
    allow the client to reliably take advantage of landscape when available,
    yet still print the content when it is not. See, for example:

      UPnP: http://www.upnp.org/download/Service_print_v1_020808.pdf, Section
    2.6.20.
      Bluetooth: from http://www.bluetooth.com/dev/specifications.asp BPP,
    Section 7.1.1

    ------------------------------------------
    Elliott Bradshaw
    Director, Software Engineering
    Oak Technology Imaging Group
    781 638-7534

    ----- Forwarded by Elliott Bradshaw/oaktech/us on 02/03/2003 12:23 PM -----
                                                                                                   
                        Elliott
                        Bradshaw To: "BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1)"
                                              <jim.bigelow@hp.com>, don@lexmark.com
                        01/30/2003 cc:
                        08:06 AM Subject: Re: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of
                                              XHTML-Print and CSS Print Pr ofile re leased
                                                                                                   

    Hmm, maybe my reasoning is bogus.

    Since the position property allows an image to float to the top of the
    current page, that would imply the system needs a full page worth of
    storage.

    So, requiring landscape does not seem to require any additional resources.

    So, I'm OK with adding it.

    ------------------------------------------
    Elliott Bradshaw
    Director, Software Engineering
    Oak Technology Imaging Group
    781 638-7534

    ----- Forwarded by Elliott Bradshaw/oaktech/us on 01/30/2003 08:03 AM -----
                                                                                                  
                        Elliott
                        Bradshaw To: "BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1)"
                                             <jim.bigelow@hp.com>
                        01/29/2003 cc: don@lexmark.com
                        03:15 PM Subject: Re: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions
                                             of XHTML-Print and CSS Print Pr ofile re leased
                                             (Document link: Elliott Bradshaw)
                                                                                                  

    I don't think right aligned text adds a lot of incremental complexity,
    compared to other things in Enhanced. (have I missed anything?)

    However, landscape directly increases the cost of a printer because it
    blows the scan-over-the-page model (i.e. you need to store some
    representation of the entire page in memory, and the page could have lots
    of images in it). Do we want the HW cost of a DTV printer to be more than
    for other printers? I don't think so.

    ------------------------------------------
    Elliott Bradshaw
    Director, Software Engineering
    Oak Technology Imaging Group
    781 638-7534

                                                                                                   
                        "BIGELOW,JIM
                        (HP-Boise,ex1) To: ElliottBradshaw@oaktech.com, don@lexmark.com
                        " cc:
                        <jim.bigelow@h Subject: FW: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of
                        p.com> XHTML-Print and CSS Print Pr ofile re leased
                                                                                                   
                        01/29/2003
                        01:59 PM
                                                                                                   
                                                                                                   

    Elliott and Don,

    What do you think of these late requests for additions? I'm not in favor
    of
    landscape, right alignment of text.

    Jim

    --
    Jim Bigelow
    Hewlett-Packard
    208-396-2068
    jim.bigelow@hp.com
    

    -----Original Message----- From: Miyazawa Shunsaku [mailto:Miyazawa.Shunsaku@exc.epson.co.jp] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 4:53 PM To: 'BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1)'; 'xp@pwg.org' Subject: RE: XP> January 23, 2003 versions of XHTML-Print and CSS Print Pr ofile re leased

    Hello all,

    >We need to discuss this proposal before adding it to the specification. I think so.

    I am sorry additional request of some CSS values. Our original request are lack some CSS values for DTV. So we would like to discuss this proposal that these CSS values adding to CSS Print Enhanced column.

    >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BIGELOW,JIM (HP-Boise,ex1) >> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:32 AM >> ... >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Miyazawa Shunsaku [mailto:Miyazawa.Shunsaku@exc.epson.co.jp] >> > >> > ... Thanks for adding DTV enhancement set to the extended layout >> > enhancement . I look over current CSS Print Enhanced ,so I >> > recognize I had forgotten to request some CSS values as CSS >> > Print Enhanced. >> > >> > DTV request follows CSS values , a few more >> > 1. "right" value for "text-align" property. >> > 2. "landscape" value for "size" property. >> > 3. "lower latin" and "upper latin" values for " >> > list-style-type" property. >> > >> > So, we would like to add these CSS values as CSS >> Print Enhanced. >> >> Miyazawa-san, >> >> Thank you for the corrections. I will add these corrections >> to the CSS Print Profile.

    >My response above, that I would add text-align:right, size: landscape, >and list-style-type, was based on the thought that these requests were >part of the original request made at the November 5, 2002 meeting (See >http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/minutes/Minutes-November-2002.html). >However, when I reread those materials >(http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/minutes/xhtml-avc.pdf and >http://www.pwg.org/xhtml-print/minutes/CSSprintenhanced-XHTMLforDTVprin >t.pdf >) I do not see a request for these values.

    >I think that we must discuss whether these values should be added or >not and that members of the working group must decide.

    >The value "right" for text-align has not included in the CSS Print >Profile because it is thought to be too complex for low cost printers.

    >The value "landscape" for the size property has, also, not been >included in the CSS Print Profile because low cost printer may not have >enough memory to rotate a page from portrait to landscape.

    >The values of "lower latin" and "upper latin" for the list-style-type >have not been include, but I do not know the reasoning. Perhaps >someone from the working group can indicate why these have not been >part of the specification.

    Shunsaku Miyazawa SEIKO EPSON



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