Randy,
The current draft does not assumes that any "input" format can be transformed to anything in the output list. The “ListOutputDocumentFormats” lists the available output document formats for a single specified input document format. The “ListInputDocumentFormats” lists the available input document formats for a single specified Output document format. The output/input document format can be specified and either a “DocumentFormat” element with an optional “DocumentFormatVersion” or a “DocumentFormatDetails” element group.
Pete
Peter Zehler
Xerox Research Center Webster
Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
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From: mfd-bounces at pwg.org [mailto:mfd-bounces at pwg.org] On Behalf Of Randy Turner
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 3:29 PM
To: Ira McDonald
Cc: <mfd at pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22
Still seems like the semantic model should avoid concrete mappings where possible, otherwise the doc could undergo needless revisions - you could have an abstract operation called "enumerateTransforms" that would return a list made up of Pwg transform types, some of these would map to mime, some wouldn't - the current draft assumes that any "input" format can be transformed to any thing in the output list - that may not be the case
On Mar 19, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Randy,
My two cents.
We *always* transform one or more documents into
some different one or more documents.
So - for everything *but* natural language transforms,
we have to keep using the IPP and PWG SM universal
choice of document-format as IANA MIME type.
For the particular named transform(s) for natural
language, script, transliteration, etc., we probably
need new first-class properties that strictly conform
to the IETF LTRU specs (effectively input and output
language tags w/ IETF-approved ornaments).
Cheers,
- Ira
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic <http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic>
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc <http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc>
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On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Randy Turner <rturner at amalfisystems.com> wrote:
Yeah, I was about to reply that I've never seen a mime tag specifying natural language...
This was my only issue with the current transform draft - we may want to treat "what" is being transformed as a higher layer abstraction, removing any concrete mappings
R.
On Mar 19, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ira McDonald <blueroofmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
This needs some major thought and discussion.
The current IETF standards around language tags
allow description of script and many other dimensions
besides "natural language" (US English).
I'm not sure of the standardization status of language
tags on MIME types, but the PWG *definitely* should
NOT be inventing this home brew.
I'd rather use first class attributes for complex language,
script, transliteration, etc. transformations.
We need advice here from the IETF LTRU (Language
Tag Registry Update) WG chairs and editors.
There IS work-in-progress in IETF LTRU WG for
language tag translation-request extensions.
MIME Types proper should be reserved for document
formats, NOT for document metadata (like language
tags).
Cheers,
- Ira
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc
http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic <http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic>
http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc <http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc>
mailto:blueroofmusic at gmail.com
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094
Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Michael Sweet <msweet at apple.com> wrote:
Randy,
MIME media types can include parameters; we'd just need to extend the current definitions of the types we care about to include a "language" parameter.
On Mar 19, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Randy Turner wrote:
How would I specify I wanted a document transformed from UK English to French using Mime types ?
On Mar 19, 2012, at 8:52 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:
Randy,
The rationale for these ops is to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for transformations. To resolve the "from" and "to" mapping issue one side of the mapping is fixed based on the op. The formats are defined as Mime types reusing the definition from print and scan. I am unaware of any constraints as to what a “format” can be since the Mime value is qualified. The DocumentFormatWKV simple type (PwgWellKnownValues.xsd) has some values listed. I expect the list to be expanded during the Transform Service discussions. The “MimeExtensionPattern” permits any valid Mime value to be used as well.
Pete
Peter Zehler
Xerox Research Center Webster
Email: Peter.Zehler at Xerox.com
Voice: (585) 265-8755 <tel:%28585%29%20265-8755>
FAX: (585) 265-7441 <tel:%28585%29%20265-7441>
US Mail: Peter Zehler
Xerox Corp.
800 Phillips Rd.
M/S 128-25E
Webster NY, 14580-9701
From: Randy Turner [mailto:rturner at amalfisystems.com]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 9:41 AM
To: Zehler, Peter
Cc: <mfd at pwg.org>
Subject: Re: [MFD] Semantic Model teleconference, 3pm EST Thursday 3/22
Hi Pete
Regarding the "ListInputFormat/ListOutputFormat" operations in the transform service definition...is the rationale for these ops to enumerate the possible "from" and "to" formats for transformations?
If so, where are these formats defined? And are any constraints as to what a "format" can be?
Thanks
Randy
On Mar 19, 2012, at 4:11 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <Peter.Zehler at xerox.com> wrote:
Agenda:
1. Identify Minute Taker
2. Approval of previous minutes
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf <ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-mfd-minutes-20120308.pdf> >
3. Agenda bashing
4. Compile list of named transforms
5. Discuss recent changes to PWG Schema for named transforms
6. Review latest Transform Service specification
<ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/wd/wd-mfdtransformmodel01-20120315.pdf>
7. Next Steps
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