Don’t forget that using XHTML and CSS for printing started within the PWG
as 5101.2-2003 and 5102.2-2003, respectively.
________________________________________________________
*Don Wright, President*
Standards Strategies, LLC
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Mt Washington, KY 40047
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Past President, IEEE Standards Association
Past Chair, IEEE SA Standards Board
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*From:* ipp <ipp-bounces at pwg.org> *On Behalf Of *Paul Tykodi via ipp
*Sent:* Thursday, September 14, 2023 1:16 PM
*To:* ipp at pwg.org
*Cc:* Paul Tykodi <ptykodi at tykodi.com>
*Subject:* [IPP] FW: Question - CSS Working Group Activities & W3C
Publishing Business Group Goals
Hi IPP Mailing list,
This forwarded email thread has a little more content included than the
thread Ira forwarded on Monday along with a note from him mentioning the
content of the email thread had been discussed at last Monday’s SC meeting.
The concept being discussed is that a document to be printed is
purposefully built using HTML and the target for the document is a printer
and not a web browser. I believe the following article has a good
introduction to the idea:
https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2015/01/designing-for-print-with-css/
Best Regards,
/Paul
--
Paul Tykodi
Principal Consultant
TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC
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*From:* Paul Tykodi <ptykodi at tykodi.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 6, 2023 8:33 AM
*To:* 'PWG Steering Committee (restricted)' <sc at pwg.org>
*Subject:* FW: Question - CSS Working Group Activities & W3C Publishing
Business Group Goals
Hi Steering Committee,
FYI …
Best Regards,
/Paul
--
Paul Tykodi
Principal Consultant
TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC
Tel/Fax: 603-343-1820
Mobile: 603-866-0712
E-mail: ptykodi at tykodi.com
WWW: http://www.tykodi.com
This e-mail reply and any attachments are confidential and may be
privileged.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Tykodi Consulting
Services LLC
immediately by replying to this message and destroying all copies of this
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and any attachments. Thank you
*From:* Schindler Wolfgang Dr. <w.schindler at pons.de>
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 6, 2023 6:39 AM
*To:* Laurent Le Meur <laurent at edrlab.org>; Cristina Mussinelli -
Fondazione LIA <cristina.mussinelli at fondazionelia.org>
*Cc:* Ivan Herman <ivan at w3.org>; Liisa McCloy-Kelley <
LMcCloy-Kelley at randomhouse.com>; "Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平)" <
shiohama at mediado.jp>; W3C Publishing Steering Committee <
public-publishing-sc at w3.org>; ptykodi at tykodi.com
*Subject:* AW: Question - CSS Working Group Activities & W3C Publishing
Business Group Goals
Dear Ivan, dear colleagues,
The ideal data format for single-source publishing is XML or (X)HTML. If
you intend to produce printed products from these data and be independent
from a vendor-specific tool, you might either use XSL-FO or Print CSS.
There are commercial tools for either approach, e.g. from Antenna House,
and for CSS there is also Prince or PDFreactor, but also open-source
alternatives.
In my opinion, it makes a lot of sense to extend the coverage of paged
media in CSS to be able to express all the features needed for high-quality
print products in “pure” CSS. I know about books (e.g. Christin Götz:
“Print CSS. Das CSS paged media Modul.: Grundlagen und Referenz”, ISBN:
978-3938529089) on that topic and I have seen printed books produced by
using this approach.
Thus I would argue in favour of exploring this issue in more detail in W3C
Publishing and if they agree, in the CSS WG, which would of course be the
right place for this kind of work.
Best,
Wolfgang
*Von:* Laurent Le Meur <laurent at edrlab.org>
*Gesendet:* Dienstag, 5. September 2023 17:59
*An:* Cristina Mussinelli - Fondazione LIA <
cristina.mussinelli at fondazionelia.org>
*Cc:* Ivan Herman <ivan at w3.org>; Liisa McCloy-Kelley <
LMcCloy-Kelley at randomhouse.com>; "Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平)" <
shiohama at mediado.jp>; W3C Publishing Steering Committee <
public-publishing-sc at w3.org>; ptykodi at tykodi.com
*Betreff:* Re: Question - CSS Working Group Activities & W3C Publishing
Business Group Goals
As developers of reading apps, we are mostly interested in the improvement
of CSS related to "synthetic" pagination, which is a subset of what needed
for printing reflowable publications.
The CSS multi-columns we're using in Readium, and what most modern reading
systems are using also (but some not) is cumbersome for many reasons. One
among others is the problem of forcing page breaks in a multi-columned html
page.
We've been dreaming about the availability CSS pages or CSS regions, we can
even say that we came to the W3C for such evolutions, but alas...
Maybe it's time to try again.
Best regards
Laurent
Le 4 sept. 2023 à 10:15, Cristina Mussinelli - Fondazione LIA <
cristina.mussinelli at fondazionelia.org> a écrit :
Dear Ivan
Good morning and thank you very much for the information.
The topic seems important to me for all those who have
single-source-publishing flows: XML to PDF for printing or HTML to PDF for
printing.
In Italy (and Europe) there are not many, but still it makes sense in my
opinion.
Many companies that produce PDF files automatically (bills, airline
tickets, contracts, etc.) use these technologies. It would be interesting
to also address the issue of producing accessible PDFs from these
technologies (XML, XHTML, CSS).
All my best
Cristina
*Da: *Ivan Herman <ivan at w3.org>
*Data: *lunedì 4 settembre 2023, 07:12
*A: *Liisa McCloy-Kelley <LMcCloy-Kelley at randomhouse.com>, Cristina
Mussinelli - Fondazione LIA <cristina.mussinelli at fondazionelia.org>, Daihei
Shiohama <shiohama at mediado.jp>
*Cc: *"'PBG Steering Committee (Public)'" <public-publishing-sc at w3.org>, <
ptykodi at tykodi.com>
*Oggetto: *Fwd: Question - CSS Working Group Activities & W3C Publishing
Business Group Goals
Liisa, Christina, Daihei,
please find, below, a mail I have just received from Paul Tykodi, from the
IEEE Printer Working Group. I would think that exploring how far the
Publishing Industry is interested by the development of CSS print would be
of importance, and maybe it is a good idea for the PBG to organize some
sort of a seminar/meeting, inviting the people from the PWG but also the
chairs of the CSS WG.
We may also think about having a short discussion about it at TPAC next
week.
Cheers
Ivan
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *"Paul Tykodi" <ptykodi at tykodi.com>
*Subject: Question - CSS Working Group Activities & W3C Publishing Business
Group Goals*
*Date: *1 September 2023 at 23:05:49 CEST
*To: *<ivan at w3.org>
*Reply-To: *<ptykodi at tykodi.com>
*Message-Id: *<032901d9dd18$168a3450$439e9cf0$@tykodi.com>
Hi Ivan,
I haven’t posted into the W3C mailing lists I monitor for quite some time
so I wanted to wish you belated congratulations on your retirement!
I am still participating in the activities of the IEEE-ISTO Printer Working
Group standards developing organization and I am currently the Co-chair of
the PWG Internet Printing Protocol (IPP) Working Group. The PWG is the
standards body, which originally developed the CSS-Print (
https://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/candidates/cs-xpcssprt10-20030331-5102.2.html)
and XHTML-Print (
https://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/candidates/cs-xpxprt10-20030331-5102.1.pdf)
standards.
Bill Wagner also represented the PWG and gave the attached presentation at
the W3C Workshop titled “Publishing and the Open Web Platform”
https://www.w3.org/2012/12/global-publisher/ held at the Centre Pompidou in
Paris, France back in 2013.
Today, I received an email notification about an upcoming meeting of the
W3C CSS Working Group. It reminded me that an active CSS Working Group
might offer an opportunity to improve the printing support defined by CSS.
As far as I know, there has not been a lot of energy put into most of the
following specifications or initiatives in the recent past:
Priorities for CSS from the Digital Publishing Interest Group -
https://www.w3.org/TR/dpub-css-priorities/
CSS Print Profile - https://www.w3.org/TR/css-print/ - CSS Working Group
note says the working group has discontinued work on the document
XHTML-Print - Second Edition - https://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-print/
CSS Paged Media Module Level 3 - https://www.w3.org/TR/css-page-3/
If the W3C Publishing Business Group might want to advocate for some
specific CSS based improvements focused on printing/publishing during this
latest iteration of CSS Working Group activities, I believe the Printer
Working Group members would likely be willing to participate in W3C CSS
working group related activities focused on improving how the CSS standard
supports printing/publishing activities.
Thanks.
Best Regards,
/Paul
*Paul Tykodi*
Principal Consultant
Tykodi Consulting Svcs LLC
Phone:
(603) 343-1820
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Tykodiconsultingservices
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP Working Group
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----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43
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