[Adding IPP list]
On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:19 PM, Petrie, Glen wrote:
> Is it a good discussion item for the f2f. If you think so, we may want to push this email to the mailing list.
Done!
> Green is problematic
All of these colors are problematic as they are approximations/generic name to value mappings. The key improvement, aside from defining standard sRGB reference values, is to support a naming convention that allows for a more accurate sRGB reference value.
> White is called White 82 (paper brightness 82); so from the table it is problematic
Actually if the name is White 82 (which should be converted to keyword form - maybe white-82?) then that isn't a conflict with "pure" white.
> Is it realistic to have colorant and paper color in the table. For me at least, when I think of green paper, I think of a sort of light green (i.e. the stuff we all use in our office. Yes there is a dark green paper too.) Green colorant is really not the same color. A simple test, if I print with a colorant of color Foo on to a media of the same color Foo, can I see what was printed? In theory; no. However, “every” blue paper is slightly different.
Just as every vendors' colorant is slightly different.
> Another consideration is that table really is a mix of colorant and media. I don’t really know of a magenta media
It is usually marketed as pink/fluorescent pink.
> and I don’t know of a goldenrod colorant (maybe some highlight or spot color). I would hoping we could leave out highlight/spot colors since most are “made by hand” to met a specific customer’s specification (i.e. Coca-Cola Red is a specific L*ab value not just red). The color table (both tables) should be extensible.
That's why we have the user/vendor naming conventions that include sRGB(A) reference values.
> From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet at apple.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 12:39 PM
> To: Petrie, Glen
> Subject: Re: [IPP] Media Color for MSN spec
>> Glen,
>> This is actually something we talked about briefly at the last F2F (though I did not capture it in the minutes, grumble grumble...) - RFC 3805 refers back to MSN (indirectly, I forget exactly) in order to pick up ISO and other color names for colorants and media.
>> So I will clarify the intro text and table, and bring up the color naming issue (where there are conflicts) at the F2F. So far blue and yellow are the only colors I think are problematic, but I'll continue to look at it while I merge your stuff in...
>> The issue with two tables is the overlap - white, black, orange, magenta, red, and green (at least) are both colorant and media colors and we can reasonably use the same names and sRGB values for both. Better, I think, to simply note the few colors where we chose one name over the other.
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 12:05 PM, Petrie, Glen wrote:
>>> Mike,
>> I did not realize it was colorant and media color. I could add colorant values back in (i.e. blue color).
>> A longer term solution is have two table.
>>> Glen
>>> From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet at apple.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 10:00 AM
> To: Petrie, Glen
> Cc: ipp at pwg.org> Subject: Re: [IPP] Media Color for MSN spec
>> FWIW, because MSN defines both colorant and media color names, I think it makes sense to add "paper" to any paper colors that are obviously different from the corresponding colorant/primary colors (like blue).
>> Any objections before I integrate Glen's table into the next draft?
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 9:48 AM, Petrie, Glen wrote:
>>>> All,
>> I have completed the table for media colors for the msn spec. (I have already provided the data to Mike.) The (summary) table and set of snap-shot images from a color application shows more details for each color.
>> The actual colors are initially based on the government standard for media color athttp://www.gpo.gov/customers/text/vol11/123.htm. Please note that the l*ab value for buff has an error (the -25.7 should be +25.7). The remainder of the colors were either determined using the government values as seed or based on the “actual color”
>> Please note that some of the colors in the table are for PAPER COLOR and NOT JUST for the COLOR. For example, Blue is for the paper color called blue (from the government std) and not the color blue.
>> Please examine the information. If you or your company has better or different values, I can make changes.
>>ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/whitepaper/PwgMsnColors-Summary.doc>ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/whitepaper/PwgMsnColors-Summary.pdf>ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/whitepaper/PwgMsnColors.djvu>> djvu reader/writer can be found at http://djvu.org/resources/> Color application is called OpenRGB found at
>http://www.logicol.com/index.php?X=ORGB&LogicolId=dd59d1b2413bd8744edc93f54598a9ac>>> glen
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> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
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> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair
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