attachment-0001
Hi Bill,<br><br>Important distinction about the "charter process" here:<br><br>(a) Project charters are approved directly by PWG SC<br> (by recent years' tradition)<br><br>(b) WG charters are approved by PWG Members<br>
via a Formal Vote (much longer time)<br><br>The charter for WIMS Power Project will not involve<br>extra time over the SC "approving" an informal<br>Project Outline - we have to cover these topics<br>anyway.<br>
<br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br clear="all">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>email: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
winter:<br> 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br> 734-944-0094<br>summer:<br> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839<br> 906-494-2434<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Ira McDonald <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi Bill,<br><br>The PWG SC *has* required a charter for every project or WG<br>in the last four years (including CIM) - that's what our Process <br>says - and the PWG SC has required a project charter for all <br>new projects of existing working groups because they CHANGE<br>
the scope of the base WG charter.<br><br>
An important advantage is to get solid Out-of-Scope statements.<br>
An open-ended WIMS Power Management project is a sure<br>
formula for failure.<br>
<br>There is no harm in following our existing process (charters)<br>and a good deal of possible harm to skipping our process.<br><br>Two specific comments:<br><br>(1) The abstract spec should be called Power Managerment Model<br>
(not Elements spec or whatever) - we have a well-known name<br> for these specs - let's use it please.<br><br>(2) As early as possible, requirements gathered should be part<br> of Section 3 Requirements in a working draft of the PWG Power<br>
Management Model spec, not just informal stuff in .../wims/power<div class="im"><br> <br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br clear="all">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
email: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>winter:<br> 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br> 734-944-0094<br>summer:<br> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839<br> 906-494-2434<br>
<br><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 6:15 PM, William Wagner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net" target="_blank">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Ira
et al,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Thank
you for your suggestions. My thoughts on the subject:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.75in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span>1.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Although a project
statement is necessary for with Power Management effort, I do not think that a
charter is. My plan was to pass a project statement past the working group and
the SC for comment, but not to go through a charter process.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.75in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span>2.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Similar to what was
done for other projects, I will create a new subdirectory under WIMS, but no
new mailing list. I intend to place the existing power management information
and the project statement in this directory, as well as non-specification draft
documents. Working Draft documents for this effort will go under the WIMS/WD
directory. But quite frankly, I foresee most of the immediate term effort being
in gathering and documenting information of requirements and constraints rather
than coming out with spec drafts.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.75in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span>3.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Addressing Harry’s
question, I will try to make the “out of scope” area clearer and less
restrictive. At this point, I do not want to prejudge what we want
to do without better understanding of both user/administrator and manufacturer viewpoints.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 1.25in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span>a.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">In general, adding power
state definitions beyond what is in ACPI is out of scope, although I would not immediately
preclude providing for manufacturer defined sub-states. That is, the state must
be one of the standard ones; but we may want to allow for a manufacturer to provide
more details so he could effectively identify more detailed sub states to
an application which understands them.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 1.25in;"><span><span>b.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> </span></span></span><span>Regardless, we certainly need to address
how the standard states apply to imaging devices in such a way that an
identified state has a consistent meaning across all products. Determining just
what this meaning is will be a major task. It is not immediately clear to me
that there is an absolute power-range level associate with each state rather
than a relative level or other aspects such as the ACPI Global state definitions
include; e.g., , the latency from external events to application response, reboot
require, safe to disassemble etc.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 1.25in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span>c.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">We touched upon whether
we will identify power states for just systems, or subunits or a services or
some combination. Ira suggested that we start with systems (which I am included
to agree with)) and absolutely avoid Services (which I am not so definite
about). If at all possible, we need to get user/administrator input, and we may
find that although users think in terms Devices (Fax, Scanner, Printer), when
dealing with an MFD, they are really concerned with Services. At this point, I
think we need to listen more than dictate.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 1.25in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span>d.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Although it may be
obvious, developing a protocol is out of scope and tying the elements to a
specific protocol is to be avoided. We recognize that defining a working
binding is necessary for prototype, and the obvious choice at this point is
SNMP. Nor do I believe that just mapping to a binding is a valid prototype of
the elements spec. But the Power Management Elements Spec should be
protocol agnostic.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.75in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.75in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Thanks,</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.75in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.75in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Bill Wagner</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> Ira McDonald
[mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 11, 2009 5:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Harry Lewis; Ira McDonald<br>
<b>Cc:</b> William Wagner; <a href="mailto:wims@pwg.org" target="_blank">wims@pwg.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WIMS] Draft of Charter of WIMS Power Mgmt Project</span></p>
</div><div><div></div><div>
<p> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Hi Harry,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the comments - my replies are inline below.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br clear="all">
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
email: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
winter:<br>
579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br>
734-944-0094<br>
summer:<br>
PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839<br>
906-494-2434<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p>On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Harry Lewis <<a href="mailto:harry.lewis@infoprint.com" target="_blank">harry.lewis@infoprint.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Ira, great
start! Couple observations.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">1. As written,
adding or changing power state definitions is out of scope. Should the
objectives include "interpretation" or mapping of defined power
states as they relate to imaging devices? </span><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> - For
example - are we going to standardize which "power level" relates to
fuser or scanner lamp readiness etc?</span> </p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
<ira><br>
My two cents.<br>
<br>
There was strong concensus at the last two face-to-face BOFs<br>
NOT to allow any but standard (CIM/ACPI) or vendor-defined <br>
power states - no site-defined power states - however, each<br>
power state should have an attribute for power consumption <br>
(in watts) - ACPI and CIM do NOT manage the absolute<br>
power level - they manage a *small* set of standard power<br>
states.<br>
<br>
Therefore, the power *state* that relates to fuser or scanner<br>
lamp readiness is in-scope for WIMS Power, but the exact <br>
power consumption should NOT be changeable by the site.<br>
<br>
Site-defined Power Policy (when to go to sleep after idle<br>
or a time-of-day) that can be changed is in-scope.<br>
</ira></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color rgb(204, 204, 204); border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;">
<p><br>
<br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">2. Should the
subtask have its own reflector? (we can't pass up the opportunity for <a href="mailto:POW@PWG.ORG" target="_blank">POW@PWG.ORG</a>!)</span> </p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p><br>
<ira><br>
No - we should continue to use the single WIMS reflector<br>
(as we have done for 4 years for CIM without problems).<br>
</ira><br>
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color rgb(204, 204, 204); border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;">
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Regards,</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">Harry<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;"><br>
Harry Lewis</span></b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: gray;"><br>
Program Manager - Intellectual Property & Open Standards<br>
Phone: 720-663-3456<br>
e-mail: <a href="mailto:harry.lewis@infoprint.com" target="_blank">harry.lewis@infoprint.com</a></span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: blue;"><br>
</span><a href="http://www.infoprint.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">infoprint.com</span></a><br>
<br>
<img src="cid:image001.gif@01C9D25D.04F9EFD0" border="0" width="90" height="26"><span style="font-family: Webdings; color: rgb(63, 98, 31);"><br>
P</span> <span style="font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(63, 98, 31);">Think before you print</span> <br>
<br>
</p>
<table style="width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 40%;" valign="top" width="40%">
<p><b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">Ira
McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>></span></b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;"> </span><br>
<span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">Sent by: <a href="mailto:wims-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">wims-bounces@pwg.org</a></span>
</p>
<p><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">05/11/2009
12:54 PM</span> </p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 59%;" valign="top" width="59%">
<table style="width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top">
<p style="text-align: right;" align="right"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">To</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top">
<p><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;"><a href="mailto:wims@pwg.org" target="_blank">wims@pwg.org</a>, William Wagner
<<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net" target="_blank">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>>,
Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>></span>
</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top">
<p style="text-align: right;" align="right"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">cc</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top">
<p style="text-align: right;" align="right"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">Subject</span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top">
<p><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">[WIMS]
Draft of Charter of WIMS Power Mgmt Project</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p> </p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"></td>
<td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"></td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<div>
<div>
<p><br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Bill,<br>
<br>
Attempting to more constructively help out...<br>
<br>
I just posted a draft of a charter for WIMS Power Mgmt Project:<br>
<br>
<a href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/wd-wimspower-charter-20090511.htm" target="_blank">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/wd-wimspower-charter-20090511.htm</a><br>
<br>
I followed the format approved by the PWG in IPP PSX project<br>
and more recently the MFD WG (basically the same idea).<br>
Especially, it includes a specific Out-Of-Scope section.<br>
<br>
Please add a brief Problem Statement (replace <tbd>).<br>
<br>
The Milestones during Definition Phase (Initial draft, Prototype<br>
draft, and PWG Last Call for each of Model and Binding specs) <br>
are the ones the PWG Steering Committee agreed on for MFD <br>
- the SC specifically do not want a milestone such as 'PWG CS',<br>
because a WG can't project that.<br>
<br>
Comments?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
email: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a></p>
</div>
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