attachment-0001
Hi Harry,<br><br>I think we generally agree that knowing that <br>a Marker (for example) has to be in the CIM<br>power state "On" (i.e., ACPI state G0 or S0) <br>to be immediately operational should be a<br>part of the PWG standard.<br>
<br>Likewise the difference (in RELATIVE warm-up <br>time) between the two CIM power states:<br><br>"Sleep-Soft" (Standby - ACPI S1 or S2)<br>"Sleep-Deep" (Suspend - ACPI S3)<br><br>Allowing vendor-unique primary power states<br>
(not defined in CIM and ACPI) would be very<br>bad for interoperability. <br><br>Allowing a separate power substate attribute<br>would be OK - though perhaps confusing to<br>real customers - certainly not interoperable.<br>
<br>Certainly a power state message attribute<br>should be as explicit as possible for the<br>end user.<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br clear="all">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>email: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
winter:<br> 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br> 734-944-0094<br>summer:<br> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839<br> 906-494-2434<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Harry Lewis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:harry.lewis@infoprint.com" target="_blank">harry.lewis@infoprint.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Thanks Bill and Ira.</font>
<br>
<br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">To be clear, I am not suggesting defining
any new power states. The question is whether or not the PWG WIMS-POW effort
will document a MAPPING or INTERPRETATION of EXISTING power states. As
Bill indicates, probably no need to get to this level of detail in the
project statement. </font>
<br><div>
<br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Regards,</font>
<br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Harry<br>
</font><font size="1" face="Arial"><b><br>
Harry Lewis</b></font><font color="#808080" size="1" face="Arial"><br>
Program Manager - Intellectual Property & Open Standards<br>
Phone: 720-663-3456<br>
e-mail: <a href="mailto:harry.lewis@infoprint.com" target="_blank">harry.lewis@infoprint.com</a></font><font color="blue" size="1" face="Arial"><br>
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P</font><font size="3"> </font><font color="#3f621f" size="1" face="Arial">Think
before you print</font><font size="3"> </font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<td width="40%"><div><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><b>"William Wagner"
<<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net" target="_blank">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>></b> </font>
<br></div><div><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Sent by: <a href="mailto:wims-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">wims-bounces@pwg.org</a></font>
</div><p><font size="1" face="sans-serif">05/11/2009 04:16 PM</font>
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<div align="right"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
</td><td><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:wims@pwg.org" target="_blank">wims@pwg.org</a>></font>
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<div align="right"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
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<div align="right"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
</td><td><font size="1" face="sans-serif">RE: [WIMS] Draft of Charter of WIMS
Power Mgmt Project</font></td></tr></tbody></table>
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<br><font size="2" face="Arial">Ira et al,</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">Thank you for your suggestions. My thoughts
on the subject:</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">1. Although a project statement
is necessary for with Power Management effort, I do not think that a charter
is. My plan was to pass a project statement past the working group and
the SC for comment, but not to go through a charter process.</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">2. Similar to what was done
for other projects, I will create a new subdirectory under WIMS, but no
new mailing list. I intend to place the existing power management information
and the project statement in this directory, as well as non-specification
draft documents. Working Draft documents for this effort will go under
the WIMS/WD directory. But quite frankly, I foresee most of the immediate
term effort being in gathering and documenting information of requirements
and constraints rather than coming out with spec drafts.</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">3. Addressing Harry’s question,
I will try to make the “out of scope” area clearer and less restrictive.
At this point, I do not want to prejudge what we want to do
without better understanding of both user/administrator and manufacturer
viewpoints.</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">a. In general, adding power
state definitions beyond what is in ACPI is out of scope, although I would
not immediately preclude providing for manufacturer defined sub-states.
That is, the state must be one of the standard ones; but we may want to
allow for a manufacturer to provide more details so he could effectively
identify more detailed sub states to an application which understands
them.</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">b. Regardless, we certainly
need to address how the standard states apply to imaging devices
in such a way that an identified state has a consistent meaning across
all products. Determining just what this meaning is will be a major task.
It is not immediately clear to me that there is an absolute power-range
level associate with each state rather than a relative level or other
aspects such as the ACPI Global state definitions include; e.g., , the
latency from external events to application response, reboot require,
safe to disassemble etc.</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">c. We touched upon whether
we will identify power states for just systems, or subunits or a services
or some combination. Ira suggested that we start with systems (which I
am included to agree with)) and absolutely avoid Services (which I am not
so definite about). If at all possible, we need to get user/administrator
input, and we may find that although users think in terms Devices (Fax,
Scanner, Printer), when dealing with an MFD, they are really concerned
with Services. At this point, I think we need to listen more than dictate.</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">d. Although it may be obvious,
developing a protocol is out of scope and tying the elements to a specific
protocol is to be avoided. We recognize that defining a working binding
is necessary for prototype, and the obvious choice at this point is SNMP.
Nor do I believe that just mapping to a binding is a valid prototype of
the elements spec. But the Power Management Elements Spec should
be protocol agnostic.</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">Thanks,</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial">Bill Wagner</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial"> <br>
</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font>
<br><font color="#004080" size="4" face="Calibri"> </font>
<br><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Ira McDonald [mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> Monday, May 11, 2009 5:01 PM<b><br>
To:</b> Harry Lewis; Ira McDonald<b><br>
Cc:</b> William Wagner; <a href="mailto:wims@pwg.org" target="_blank">wims@pwg.org</a><b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [WIMS] Draft of Charter of WIMS Power Mgmt Project</font>
<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">Hi Harry,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the comments - my replies are inline below.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
email: </font><a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><u>blueroofmusic@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
winter:<br>
579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br>
734-944-0094<br>
summer:<br>
PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839<br>
906-494-2434<br>
</font>
<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 4:44 PM,
Harry Lewis <</font><a href="mailto:harry.lewis@infoprint.com" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><u>harry.lewis@infoprint.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">>
wrote:</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial"><br>
Ira, great start! Couple observations.</font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
<br>
</font><font size="2" face="Arial"><br>
1. As written, adding or changing power state definitions is out of scope.
Should the objectives include "interpretation" or mapping of
defined power states as they relate to imaging devices? <br>
- For example - are we going to standardize which "power level"
relates to fuser or scanner lamp readiness etc?</font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
<ira><br>
My two cents.<br>
<br>
There was strong concensus at the last two face-to-face BOFs<br>
NOT to allow any but standard (CIM/ACPI) or vendor-defined <br>
power states - no site-defined power states - however, each<br>
power state should have an attribute for power consumption <br>
(in watts) - ACPI and CIM do NOT manage the absolute<br>
power level - they manage a *small* set of standard power<br>
states.<br>
<br>
Therefore, the power *state* that relates to fuser or scanner<br>
lamp readiness is in-scope for WIMS Power, but the exact <br>
power consumption should NOT be changeable by the site.<br>
<br>
Site-defined Power Policy (when to go to sleep after idle<br>
or a time-of-day) that can be changed is in-scope.<br>
</ira></font>
<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font><font size="2" face="Arial"><br>
2. Should the subtask have its own reflector? (we can't pass up the opportunity
for </font><a href="mailto:POW@PWG.ORG" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="2" face="Arial"><u>POW@PWG.ORG</u></font></a><font size="2" face="Arial">!)</font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
<ira><br>
No - we should continue to use the single WIMS reflector<br>
(as we have done for 4 years for CIM without problems).<br>
</ira><br>
</font>
<br><font size="2" face="Arial"><br>
Regards,</font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size="2" face="Arial"><br>
Harry</font><font size="1" face="Arial"><b><br>
<br>
Harry Lewis</b></font><font color="#808080" size="1" face="Arial"><br>
Program Manager - Intellectual Property & Open Standards<br>
Phone: 720-663-3456<br>
e-mail: </font><a href="mailto:harry.lewis@infoprint.com" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="1" face="Arial"><u>harry.lewis@infoprint.com</u></font></a><font color="blue" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="http://www.infoprint.com/" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="1" face="Arial"><u>infoprint.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
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P</font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"> </font><font color="#3f621f" size="1" face="Arial">Think
before you print</font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font>
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<td width="29%"><font size="1" face="Arial"><b>Ira McDonald <</b></font><a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="1" face="Arial"><b><u>blueroofmusic@gmail.com</u></b></font></a><font size="1" face="Arial"><b>></b>
<br>
Sent by: </font><a href="mailto:wims-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="1" face="Arial"><u>wims-bounces@pwg.org</u></font></a><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font>
<p><font size="1" face="Arial">05/11/2009 12:54 PM</font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font>
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<div align="right"><font size="1" face="Arial">To</font></div>
</td><td width="93%"><a href="mailto:wims@pwg.org" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="1" face="Arial"><u>wims@pwg.org</u></font></a><font size="1" face="Arial">,
William Wagner <</font><a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="1" face="Arial"><u>wamwagner@comcast.net</u></font></a><font size="1" face="Arial">>,
Ira McDonald <</font><a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="1" face="Arial"><u>blueroofmusic@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size="1" face="Arial">></font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
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<td>
<div align="right"><font size="1" face="Arial">Subject</font></div>
</td><td><font size="1" face="Arial">[WIMS] Draft of Charter of WIMS Power Mgmt
Project</font></td></tr></tbody></table>
<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"> </font>
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<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Bill,<br>
<br>
Attempting to more constructively help out...<br>
<br>
I just posted a draft of a charter for WIMS Power Mgmt Project:<br>
<br>
</font><a href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/wd-wimspower-charter-20090511.htm" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><u>ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/wd-wimspower-charter-20090511.htm</u></font></a><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
I followed the format approved by the PWG in IPP PSX project<br>
and more recently the MFD WG (basically the same idea).<br>
Especially, it includes a specific Out-Of-Scope section.<br>
<br>
Please add a brief Problem Statement (replace <tbd>).<br>
<br>
The Milestones during Definition Phase (Initial draft, Prototype<br>
draft, and PWG Last Call for each of Model and Binding specs) <br>
are the ones the PWG Steering Committee agreed on for MFD <br>
- the SC specifically do not want a milestone such as 'PWG CS',<br>
because a WG can't project that.<br>
<br>
Comments?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
email: </font><a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="blue" size="3" face="Times New Roman"><u>blueroofmusic@gmail.com</u></font></a>
<br><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
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579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br>
734-944-0094<br>
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906-494-2434</font>
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