attachment-0002
Hi Glen,<br><br>A conforming PrintService that supports PWG standards either:<br>(1) Is an IPP Printer (a *logical* print service); or<br>(2) Is a PWG SM implementation of PrintService.<br><br>In either case they are bound by IPP semantics as those are<br>
the normative basis of the PWG Semantic Model.<br><br>Some other PrintService that accepts a PJT may make other<br>choices, but then interoperability across gateways will suffer.<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br clear="all">
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094<br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div>
</div><div></div><div></div><div></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Petrie, Glen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Ira<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Does a conforming Print Service
accepting a PWG:PJT have to behave accordingly!!!???? (It is not an IPP
printer!)<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">glen<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Ira McDonald
[mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 02, 2012
8:54 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen; Ira McDonald<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Michael Sweet; <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">mfd@pwg.org</a></span></font></p><div><div class="h5"><font face="Tahoma"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [MFD] Question on
Resolution Versus Qaulity</font></div></div><u></u><u></u><p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi Glen,<br>
<br>
I see the logic of your comments.<br>
<br>
But IPP/2.0 Second Edition *did* specifically resolve this<br>
"quality" versus "resolution" question based on quite a lot<br>
of mailing list and face-to-face discussion. This is stated<br>
in on page 21, section 6.2, item 8 of PWG 5100.12.<br>
<br>
So a conforming IPP Printer has to behave accordingly.<br>
<br>
We can add more discussion in IPP JPS3, if that seems<br>
appropriate, but we really can't reverse the IPP/2.0 SE, <br>
because that would not be backward compatible.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br clear="all">
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><font color="#3333ff"><span style="color:#3333ff">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></font></a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><font color="#6600cc"><span style="color:#6600cc">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></font></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter <u></u><u></u>579 Park Place<u></u>
<u></u>Saline<u></u>, <u></u>MI<u></u>
<u></u>48176<u></u><u></u>
<a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>
Summer <u></u><u></u>PO Box<u></u>
221<u></u> Grand <u></u><u></u>Marais<u></u>,
<u></u>MI<u></u> <u></u>49839<u></u><u></u>
<a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Petrie, Glen <<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com" target="_blank">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Mike,</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Interesting but I still believe my conclusions support both a
simple and sophisticated user-centric model. A simple user-centric model
will always use the “quality” setting and, for added “control”, will set
“content type” to get the desired output. Sophisticated users will
want to control the finer details and, thus, may want a specific
resolution. </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">As to “draft” operations or any other quality setting
operations: in general, no print vendor is going to use simpler/faster
dithers or color-transform or not perform print row interleaving, if it reduces
the overall printed quality of the output simply because the user set quality
setting to draft/normal/high in a Print Client. There would be
insignificant amount of processing required; no need to support multiple
dither/color transforms routines; and an unnoticeable amount of additional (if
any) overall print time. If a user specifies a resolution versus
quality; then, saving ink was not his/her intent; he/she wants a specific
resolution for his/her specific reason. While bi-directional versus
uni-directional printing are affected by quality settings; print service
internal selection (not user set) would also use content-type (for example;
high-quality text (bi) versus high-quality photo(uni)) which, of course, bi
versus uni, can also be done as a function of resolution and the content-type.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">The constraint is solved by;</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">The content-type MUST be
set; </span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<ol start="1" type="a">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">The default could be “text
and graphic”</span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
</ol>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">If user sets resolution; then
the Print Services uses this resolution along with content-type. The
Print Service will ignore any quality-setting and set any internal
processing based on resolution and content-type only. </span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<ol start="1" type="a">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">If the resolution set is not
supported; then return an error. (How this could occur from a print
client that received printer capability data is unknown but just in-case
the user is allowed to “type” in any resolution they want!) </span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
</ol>
<ol start="3" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">If user set quality but not
resolution, then</span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
<ol start="3" type="1">
<ol start="1" type="a">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">The Print Service uses
content-type and quality-setting to determine a resolution and internal
processing.</span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">IMHO, the user must always be in control. Setting resolution
is more specific than setting quality, since quality is qualitative versus
quantitative; thus, if a user sets a resolution; then that what should be done.
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">I think we will have to agree to disagree and simply move on!</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">glen</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Michael Sweet [mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February 01, 2012
5:00 PM</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Tahoma" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">mfd@pwg.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [MFD] Question on
Resolution Versus Qaulity</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#888888" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#888888"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#888888" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#888888">Glen,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Feb 1, 2012, at
3:45 PM, Petrie, Glen wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite"><span style="text-align:-webkit-auto;word-spacing:0px">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Conceptually there
is no reason a printer could not support a draft mode for multiple resolutions
(and this is in fact the case in CUPS/Mac OS X), so preventing both from being
specified will do a disservice to the user and printer/driver.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] So if we have “draft” at 75, 150, 300; and the user can
select both “draft” and 300; then what is the value of “draft” to the Print
Service since the Print Service was told to print at 300 dpi.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span> <u></u><u></u></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"Draft"
might select (for example) bidirectional printing on an inkjet with no
interleaving of dot rows. It could also use a simpler/faster dithering algorithm,
simpler/faster color transform, use less inks (i.e. just CMYK instead of
CMYKcmk), etc.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite"><span style="text-align:-webkit-auto;word-spacing:0px">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] Users are more likely to select “quality” equals “draft” and
“contentOptimize” equals “photo” and not a dpi (ops: resolution).
If a user ‘really understands’ the Print Service performance for differing
dpi’s (again ops: resolution’s); then “quality” should never win because the
user knows exactly what dpi they want!</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span> <u></u><u></u></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Users do not know
how quality and resolution interact, and in the absence of the JPS3 mechanisms
for doing constraint resolution there is no way for the client to know either.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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</div>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite"><span style="text-align:-webkit-auto;word-spacing:0px">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Quality !=
Resolution. They may be related, and there may in fact be constraints
that cause a particular combination to conflict, but they are not mutually exclusive
and express separate intent. The IPP/2.0 recommendation to prefer Quality
over Resolution when there is a conflict is a pragmatic approach to automatic
conflict resolution.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] Print-Resolution is a function of both Quality AND
Content-Optimize. Any printer today can determine a resolution from
these two values. If a user specifies a resolution then the Print Service
should use the resolution (resolution is always the winner) since the user is
stating they want the specified resolution that gives them a desired quality
for the content!</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span> <u></u><u></u></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">and if that
resolution is supported by the printer then by all means it should use it! But
if not, the printer should let the client know it can't use that resolution and
use the closest resolution instead...<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] The conclusion is then</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<span style="text-align:-webkit-auto;word-spacing:0px">
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</div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">Specified Resolution wins
over “Quality” - always, since the User specified ‘use this
resolution”.</span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span> <u></u><u></u></font></p></div></span>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The user specified
"use this quality". One has to win, and IMHO (and based on what we
agreed to and approved in IPP/2.0 SE) Quality wins over Resolution.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite"><span style="text-align:-webkit-auto;word-spacing:0px">
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<div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">Content-Optimize MUST be
required – for a printer to properly determine the correct resolution when
resolution is not specified.</span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</span></blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span> <u></u><u></u></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">That's what
defaults are for...<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<span style="text-align:-webkit-auto;word-spacing:0px">
<div link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<ol start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:blue"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria">Print-Quality is
[Quality (-Intent) + Content-Optimize ] or [ Resolution] but not both.</span></font><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span> <u></u><u></u></font></p></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Again, these
elements are related but not mutually exclusive.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div><span style="text-align:-webkit-auto;word-spacing:0px"><span style="text-align:-webkit-auto;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Andale Mono" size="4"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Andale Mono"">_________________________________________________________<br>
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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</span></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span> <u></u><u></u></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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