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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Ira,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thank you for your response. I apologize for not using proper
capitalization and non spacing conventions in the email, but I obviously am not
communicating the issue adequately and will leave it open for discussion. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And I wonder about ”</span> Document object can only be
created *after* a Job object has been created<span style='font-size:14.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We maintain that services such as Scan output Digital Documents to
a repository, in which case the I would assume that the Documents can exist
long after the Job and Job history are gone. And if a PrintJobTicket were to reference
a Document in a repository, are we saying that it is not a Document until the Print
Job is created, which occurs after the Print Ticket is accepted by the Print
service?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Are we (or just I) getting mixed up between the formalities
of the Schema model Document object and the common perception (that we also
seem to adhere to) that Documents are created, shuffled around, stored, and may
be included in a Job. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Ira McDonald
[mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 05, 2010 5:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> William Wagner; Ira McDonald<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mfd@pwg.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MFD] Dec. 8-9 Face-to-Face Meeting Minutes is now
available<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi Bill,<br>
<br>
My replies are inline below.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 4:35 PM, William Wagner <<a
href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi Ira,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Quite so. But I had not entered these
questions as answered since the responses did not appear to resolve my
questions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>1.</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Since from your response, a document may
contain zero or one document ticket, and a job can contain zero or more
documents, I do not see the error in saying that a job can contain zero or more
document tickets. At any rate, for those who have not internalized the model,
it does answer the question of how the document tickets get into the
service.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I may
misunderstand, but I think it would be misleading to say in the general
document description that a document may contain zero or one document ticket
since documents can exist exclusive of jobs, but I assume that it is only when
a document is part of a job that it may contain a document ticket.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><ira><br>
When using the correctly capitalized terms for <br>
the SM *objects*, a Document object can only<br>
be created *after* a Job object has been created<br>
and the DocumentTicket object is optional (and <br>
rarely used) to override the JobTicket object in <br>
the Job object. <br>
<br>
There is no such thing as a *lowercase* document <br>
ticket in the Semantic Model.<br>
</ira> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>2.</span><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Your response with regard to </span><span
style='font-size:14.0pt'>StorageMakeAndModel, although it appears to confirm my
observation, does not address the question of what the reference should be. We
originally had two separate elements but there appeared to be consensus that a
single MakeAndModel element was reference-able. I do not recall who maintained
that, but if that is so, I would like the reference.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
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<p class=MsoNormal><ira><br>
There is no possible public MIB general reference <br>
for MakeAndModel (which was inherited from IPP <br>
in SM/1.0 and was for whole Printers only). <br>
<br>
IETF Host Resources MIB only supports ASN.1<br>
OIDs in the ProductID textual convention used<br>
in hrDeviceID (and elsewhere) for manufacturer<br>
and model - these OIDs cannot be meaningfully<br>
converted to human-readable values for make<br>
and model.<br>
<br>
By very loose implementation convention, most<br>
imaging device manufacturers use sysDescr<br>
and/or hrDeviceDescr (for hrDevicePrinter) to<br>
include human-readable make and model - this<br>
information cannot be parsed reliably - I have<br>
had a long thread with HP WJA developers on <br>
this issue.<br>
<br>
An IEEE 1284 Device ID does include make<br>
and model, but a separate string (at least for<br>
the whole network device) is redundant. <br>
<br>
For *only* two of the subunits (InputTray and <br>
OutputTray), Printer MIB v2 includes make <br>
and model. So there's no public MIB source <br>
for make and model of any other subunits.<br>
<br>
The SM/2.0 MakeAndModel element is synthetic <br>
and does *not* have any public MIB reference.<br>
Whether this element is a good idea is really<br>
questionable, IMHO.<br>
</ira> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Bill Wagner</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
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