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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Nancy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks for your response.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>On Item 1, there are two levels of the question. One is
specifically should FaxOut and EmailOut show a digital output to a repository
but not Print. I believe that we can agree that FaxOut, EmailOut, and Print all
behave the same in this regard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The second part of the question originally got phrased as a
question of “input” vs “output” storage. But I agree
with Ira that this is not a characteristic of the repository. Rather, I maintain
that this is a function of how the Print, etc. Service handles the storage. We
have taken the position that, for modeling purposes, we are concerned only
with elements that are somehow accessible to a user. For example, although there
undoubtedly is a DigitalDocument somewhere in the inner workings of a digital
copier, we have maintained that the document is not accessible in digital form
and therefore, as far as the model is concerned, it does not exist. Following
this reasoning, if a Print, etc. Service stores a DigitalDocument in such a way
that only that service can re-access it (what I was calling input storage), regardless
of where that storage is physically, it is an aspect of implementation and
it is not appropriate to include it in the model. The question then is, do any
of these Services have the ability to store a digital document in a repository
in such a way that that DigitalDocument is accessible to the user? That would
obviously include returning to the user information on where the document
is stored. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>On the Set and Get operation questions, I understand that a
request can include one or more “top level” complex elements.
Although I understand the complexity problem with MediaCol, I remain disturbed
about it being an ‘exception’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We will ask Pete to add the questions of a conformance
statement and response semantic to the next conference call.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks to all. Have a happy and healthy holiday.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
Nancy.Chen@okidata.com [mailto:Nancy.Chen@okidata.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> William Wagner<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mfd@pwg.org; mfd-bounces@pwg.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [MFD] Dec. 8-9 Face-to-Face Meeting Minutes is now
available<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi Bill,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I finally got a
chance to catch up with my MFD WG emails. Sorry for the delay in responding to
your questions.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please see my
reply inline in your email below.</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Regards and
Happy Holidays!</span> <br>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-Nancy</span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"William
Wagner" <wamwagner@comcast.net></span></b><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><br>
<span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent by:
mfd-bounces@pwg.org</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>12/18/2009
01:52 PM</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><mfd@pwg.org></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span
style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>RE:
[MFD] Dec. 8-9 Face-to-Face Meeting Minutes is now available</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>MFD WG,</span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sorry about these questions so close to the
holidays, but I would like to</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>solidify the meeting comments before they are lost to our celebrations.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>1. With respect to item 1
below, I suggest that a path from Print,</span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>FaxOut, EmailOut to an external repository is valid only if it is a normal</tt><br>
<tt>part of the service that a client can extract the document from that</tt><br>
<tt>repository. Using an external repository for JobSave, if that digital</tt><br>
<tt>document is not normally accessible to the outside world, is an internal</tt><br>
<tt>implementation aspect and should not be considered in the model any more</tt><br>
<tt>than a Copy Service Digital Document should be. That being agreed, my</tt><br>
<tt>question is then whether it is a customary or desired feature of any Print,</tt><br>
<tt>FaxOut, or EmailOut Service to allow alternate access to a Digital
Document.</tt></span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><Nancy> I think we need to clarify whether the repository in Figure 2
should be an abstract repository for either internal or external repository for
the source or the destination of a digital document of a MFD service, or an
external repository. Since the new IPP Job and Printer Extensions Set2 defines
any URI (external or internal to MFD) can be the location for a document saved
for reprint or resubmit operation, I think the repository should be abstract,
therefore can be used for reprint, re-email, re-fax, ..., etc. However,
re-print is a new semantics added to IPP as an optional feature for high-end
printing. Is this a customary feature for printing, email, or fax? Should these
be included in "Primary Interfaces with Services" as the Figure is
intended originally I believe? I think we should discuss with the broader
group. </tt></span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><Nancy></span></tt> <br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>2. I am confused by several
comments in the minutes relative to</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>operations, and admit that I was working with the document at the time they</tt><br>
<tt>were discussed so did not digest the discussion at the time. The comments</tt><br>
<tt>start on line 84 of the minutes and deal with Table 49 and the following</tt><br>
<tt>text.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>a. Add "comma"
between all parameters.</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(no problem)</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>b.
Get<service>XXXElements: Pete proposed the semantics of these</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>operations to be taking the requested element name (the keyword of the</tt><br>
<tt>top-level elements) as input, and returns one selected top level element</tt><br>
<tt>group elements (e.g. capabilities, default ticket, . etc., of a service) .</tt><br>
<tt>One exception is that the MediaCol element is quite large and thus the</tt><br>
<tt>elements of this group are not returned for Capabilities group. A single</tt><br>
<tt>element can only be returned by adding an extension operation. Pete will</tt><br>
<tt>align the current Print Service with this semantics.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Does this mean:</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>. The
parameters supplied with the Get<service>DocumentElements,</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>Get<service>JobElements and Get<service>ServiceElements
operations must</tt><br>
<tt>include "Top-Level" elements?</tt></span> <br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><Nancy> The input parameter
"RequestedElement" can contain any number of the names of the
top-level group elements of the service.</span></tt> <br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><Nancy></span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>. What are the
"Top-Level" elements? The original writeup</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>identified DocumentReceipt, DocumentStatus or, DocumentTicket; JobReceipt,</tt><br>
<tt>JobStatus, or JobTicket; and ServiceCapabilities,
ServiceConfiguration,</tt><br>
<tt>ServiceDescription, ServiceStatus or DefaultJobTicket.</tt></span> <br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><Nancy> These are
correct.<Nancy></span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>. Can only one
"Top-Level" element be included in one request? This</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>is implied in the original writeup but not clearly stated.</tt></span> <br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><Nancy> You can request any number of
the top-level element groups.<Nancy></span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>. The
"exception" for MediaCol is disturbing. Are we to simply say</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>that all complex elements and constituting elements except MediaCol and its</tt><br>
<tt>constituent elements are reported?</tt></span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><Nancy> Yes. <Nancy></tt></span> <br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>i. All</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>Services must align with this semantics. This is the same used in WS-Print.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ii. Bill</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>will add these statements in the Conformance section.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>. The paragraph
defining the operation will reflect the semantics,</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>once we clarify what the semantics is. I do not understand "ii".
The</tt><br>
<tt>Conformance section, as revised, requires that the Service
Specifications</tt><br>
<tt>use the definitions in the Overall document. The Overall document does not</tt><br>
<tt>specify the conformance requirements of any Service.</tt></span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><Nancy> I was not sure this was the agreement at the meeting. We can
confirm this with the group in the next teleconference. <Nancy></tt></span>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>c. Set element - should
be able to set a specific element</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>i. Set</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>uses sparsely populated tree (only contains element values to be set). IPP</tt><br>
<tt>specifies that "this must be an atomic" operation.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ii. Get</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>element: The client can obtain a specific group of elements. (not IPP</tt><br>
<tt>semantic, a WS-scan semantic).</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>iii. Bill</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>will resolve offline with Ira's comments.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>. It is unclear
to me what I need resolve with Ira's comments. </span></tt><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><Nancy> You asked to resolve the
semantics of Set operations for Services with Ira offline. <Nancy></span></tt>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I am</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>concerned however about the semantics of all of the operations ,</tt><br>
<tt>particularly the response. I would assume that the response to a
GetElements</tt><br>
<tt>would include an identification of each simple element falling somewhere</tt><br>
<tt>under the "Top Element" and its value. Would complex
element names be</tt><br>
<tt>returned?</tt></span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><Nancy> Yes, the response returns each entire group of elements
requested including simple elements at the leaf of the group structure.
MediaCol is an exception. The name of each MediaCol instances will be returned,
but not the simple elements. In order to ask for the simple elements, you need
to write an extension operation to retrieve each of them.</tt></span> <br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><Nancy></span></tt> <br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Regards. Best Wishes for a Merry Christmas
and Happy New Year to you all!</span></tt> <br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-Nancy</span></tt> <br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks!</span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Happy Holidays!</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Bill Wagner</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: William Wagner [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net]</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:28 PM</tt><br>
<tt>To: 'mfd@pwg.org'</tt><br>
<tt>Subject: RE: [MFD] Dec. 8-9 Face-to-Face Meeting Minutes is now available</tt><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Nancy and MFD WG,</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Many thanks for your extensive minutes.
However, I wonder about a few of</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>the Items.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>1. With respect to the comment
relative to Figure 2 of the Overall MFD</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>spec, line 47 in the minutes:</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>o There should be no data flow arrow
from print to Repository - the second</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>digital-doc is for job save operation.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>It was my understanding that that path was
to be retained and was indeed</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>associated with job save.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Of course, the diagram (perhaps more for
clarity) shows a two</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>repositories: one that a client inputs to and that provides documents to</tt><br>
<tt>Services; the other that Services input to and that make document
accessible</tt><br>
<tt>to clients. One could argue that Services (other than Transform) that</tt><br>
<tt>receive digital documents and potentially store them for some later action,</tt><br>
<tt>but not for local client re-access in a digital form should show the data</tt><br>
<tt>flow arrow back to the "input" respository. In that case, I
suggest that</tt><br>
<tt>Print, FaxOut and EmailOut should shown the document storage path back to</tt><br>
<tt>the "Input" repository. Also, although I am a bit shaky on
the EmailIn/Out</tt><br>
<tt>Services, I suspect that EmailOut should, like Print and FaxOut, have a</tt><br>
<tt>potential input from an input repository. Comments?</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>2. Line 51 in the minutes:
There is no document ticket, only job ticket</span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>containing document processing instructions. I had noted not to indicate</tt><br>
<tt>that a job may contain a one or more Document Tickets. But if a Job cannot</tt><br>
<tt>contain any Document Tickets, I wonder where document tickets get
associated</tt><br>
<tt>with the documents in a job?</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>3. The resolution of
StorageMakeAndModel reference is not noted. I</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>recall a reference to the HR MIB and the Printer MIB, but I can find this</tt><br>
<tt>object in neither.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>4. Also, as noted in the
minutes, there are items that Pete and Ira have</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>yet to supply.</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks,</span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Bill Wagner</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: mfd-bounces@pwg.org
[mailto:mfd-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of</span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>Nancy.Chen@okidata.com</tt><br>
<tt>Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:30 AM</tt><br>
<tt>To: mfd@pwg.org</tt><br>
<tt>Subject: [MFD] Dec. 8-9 Face-to-Face Meeting Minutes is now available</tt><br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>All,</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The minutes is now available at the
following links:</span></tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-ftf-mfd-minutes-20091208-09.pdf</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>and</tt><br>
<tt>ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/mfd/minutes/pwg-ftf-mfd-minutes-20091208-09.doc</tt><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks for all the participants!</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-Nancy</span></tt><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
</span><br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>----</tt><br>
<tt>Nancy Chen</tt><br>
<tt>Principal Engineer</tt><br>
<tt>Solutions and Technology</tt><br>
<tt>Oki Data</tt><br>
<tt>2000 Bishops Gate Blvd.</tt><br>
<tt>Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054</tt><br>
<tt>Phone: (856)222-7006</tt><br>
<tt>Email: Nancy.Chen@okidata.com</tt><br>
<tt>--</tt><br>
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<br>
<tt><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________</span></tt><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt>mfd mailing list</tt><br>
<tt>mfd@pwg.org</tt><br>
<tt>https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/mfd</tt></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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