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<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Steven and Smith,</div><div><br></div><div>I sure hope Mike chimes in here...</div><div><br></div><div>So a couple of observations:</div><div><br></div><div>(1) In the example, with "sheets" as the unit, the finishing device "stitcher" with</div><div>a max capacity of "500" can stitch up to 500 sheets together (at once). The</div><div>remaining capacity in this example is meaningless (because this is not an output</div><div>tray, but an intermediate finishing device).</div><div><br></div><div>(2) We (the PWG) can't constrain the printer manufacturers at all in their choice</div><div>of capacity unit for a given finishing device - that boat sailed 20 years ago.</div><div><br></div><div>(3) In the case of a finishing device "stitcher", the corresponding finishing supply</div><div>would have to use a meaningful unit, e.g., "tenThousandthsOfInches(3)" for the <br></div><div>length of the wire spool in the "stitcher". Note that "sheets" would be a weird and</div><div>ambiguous *supply* unit for a "stitcher".<br></div><div><br></div><div>The re-use of "PrtMarkerSuppliesSupplyUnitTC" for "finSupplyEntry" was sadly<br></div><div>brain-dead. Because it's a *non-extensible" enumeration in Printer MIB v2 (RFC</div><div>3805), not moved to IANA Printer MIB
(as it should have been). By contrast, the<br></div><div>"FinDeviceTypeTC" is *extensible* and is defined in IANA Finisher MIB.</div><div><br></div><div>Mike - over to you.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>- Ira</div><div><br></div><div>PS - Actually revising either RFC 3805 (Printer MIB) or RFC 3806 (Finisher MIB)</div><div>in the modern IETF standards context is beyond impossible - it would be a five-year,</div><div>political project for Mike and Ira - not going to happen.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)</font></i></div><div><i><font size="1">Chair - SAE Trust Anchors and Authentication TF<br></font></i></div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG</font></i></div><div><i><font size="1">Co-Chair - TCG Metadata Access Protocol SG<br></font></i></div><div dir="ltr"><i><font size="1">Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>(permanent) PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434</font></i></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 4:41 PM Kennedy, Smith (Wireless & IPP Standards) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Hi Steven,<br>
<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jan 7, 2021, at 12:40 PM, Steven Young via ipp <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Smith,<br><br>Happy New Year!<br><br>I sent the draft to CINC for their review. The following is their understanding and would like your confirmation:<br><br>In Figure 2 - PAPI Example of "printer-finisher"<br>printer-finisher[1] = "index=8;<br> type=stitcher;<br> unit=sheets;<br> maxcapacity=500;<br> capacity=100;"<br><br>Our understanding is as follows:<br>type(IPP) = finDeviceType(RFC3806)<br>unit(IPP) = finDeviceCapacityUnit(RFC3806)<br>maxcapacity(IPP) = finDeviceMaxCapacity(RFC3806)<br>capacity(IPP) = finDeviceCurrentCapacity(RFC3806)<br><br>So, finDeviceMaxCapacity is the maximum capacity of finDeviceType finishing can handle with the unit of finDeviceCapacityUnit. Right?<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>In the case of type=stacker and unit=sheets, finDeviceMaxCapacity indicates the maximum number of sheets that can be loaded, and finDeviceCurrentCapacity indicates the remaining number of sheets.<br><br>If our understanding is correct, the example in Figure 2 type=stitcher allows stapling 500 sheets of paper at a time.<br><span style="font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei",sans-serif" lang="ZH-TW">（</span>Similarly, in Figure 2, when type=puncher, 100 holes can be made at a time.<span style="font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei",sans-serif" lang="ZH-TW">）</span><br><br>We would like to know our understanding of finDeviceMaxCapacity and finDeviceCurrentCapacity is correct.<br><br>Can you please confirm that.<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(Below is the response I gave you in our private conversation.)</div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I don't know the answers. The definitions for finDeviceMaxCapacity and finDeviceCurrentCapacity in RFC 3806 aren't clear at all on what a maximum capacity or current capacity means in the context of a finisher. Ira, can you provide any clarifications on these?</div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">It also seems a bit too wide open to let the printer choose the unit type. <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Your example also raises an interesting question about stackers. The Finishing MIB defines 'stacker' as a finisher type. But IPP "finishings-col" doesn't have a representation for stackers - it considers a stacker to be an "output-tray".<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Mike, what do you think we ought to do about the FinDeviceTypeTC types in the Finishing MIB that don't have IPP equivalents in finishings-col?<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">FinDeviceTypeTC ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> STATUS current<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> DESCRIPTION<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> "The defined finishing device subunit process<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> enumerations."<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> SYNTAX INTEGER {<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> other(1),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> unknown(2),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> stitcher(3),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> folder(4),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> binder(5),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> trimmer(6),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,251,0)"> dieCutter(7),</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> puncher(8),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> perforater(9),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,251,0)"> slitter(10),</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,251,0)"> separationCutter(11),</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,251,0)"> imprinter(12),</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> wrapper(13),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> bander(14),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,251,0)"> makeEnvelope(15),</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> stacker(16),<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,251,0)"> sheetRotator(17),</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,251,0)"> inserter(18)</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> }<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>