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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Chris and Mike,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think you are asking good questions, but I think this dialog actually belongs over with the last call for IPP Everywhere™ 1.1, not in the Call for Objections to IPP Transaction-Based Printing Extensions v1.1?</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class="">
Smith<br class=""><br class="">/**<br class=""> Smith Kennedy<br class=""> HP Inc.<br class="">*/
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 2, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Rizzo, Christopher via ipp <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" class="">ipp@pwg.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">How do you feel about adding the following (first sentence) to your section 4.2 proposal?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: -webkit-standard, serif;" class="">Note: The IPP Everywhere required "_print._sub._ipp._tcp" and "_print._sub._ipps._tcp" advertisements, which are used to distinguish between legacy IPP and IPP Everywhere support, should not be confused with "_printer._tcp" and "_printer._sub._http._tcp" advertisements referenced in [BONJOUR]. The first version of the Bonjour Printing Specification was published by Apple shortly after the Internet Printing Protocol was published by the IETF. As the Line Printer Daemon Protocol [RFC1179] was considered the most popular network printing protocol at the time, the "_printer._tcp" DNS-SD service type (LPD) was assigned as the "flagship" protocol for DNS-SD advertisements. Similarly, the HTTP service registration for the embedded web server uses the "_printer._sub._http._tcp" service type, even for IPP Printers.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I'd rather that we keep Chris' addition and eliminate all the rest of it:</div><div><br class=""></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div>Note: The IPP Everywhere required "_print._sub._ipp._tcp" and "_print._sub._ipps._tcp" advertisements, which are used to distinguish between legacy IPP and IPP Everywhere support, should not be confused with "_printer._tcp" and "_printer._sub._http._tcp" advertisements referenced in [BONJOUR].</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div><br class=""></div><div>I'd also suggest:</div><div><br class=""></div><div>1. Section 4.2.1 should be updated like so:</div><div><br class=""></div></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=""><div>
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<li class=""><p class=""><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 700;" class="">4.2.1 Service (SRV) Instance Name</span></p></li>
<li class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt; font-family: 'ArialMT'" class="">Printers MUST NOT use a service instance name containing a unique identifier by default. </span><span style="font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12pt;" class="">A unique identifier MAY be added to the instance if there is a name collision.</span></p></li>
<li class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt; font-family: 'ArialMT'" class="">Printers that support DNS-SD MUST advertise the "_ipp._tcp" (generic IPP) <font color="#ff2600" class="">service type</font> and the </span><font face="ArialMT" size="3" class="">"_print._sub._ipp._tcp" (IPP Everywhere™</font><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: ArialMT;" class="">) <font color="#ff2600" class="">service subtype</font> over mDNS.</span></p></li>
<li class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt; font-family: 'ArialMT'" class="">Printers that support DNS-SD and the "ipps" URI scheme [RFC7472] MUST advertise the </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: ArialMT;" class="">"_ipps._tcp" (generic IPPS) </span><span style="caret-color: rgb(255, 38, 0); color: rgb(255, 38, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 16px;" class="">service type</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: ArialMT;" class="">and the "_print._sub._ipps._tcp" (IPP Everywhere™</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: ArialMT;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: ArialMT;" class="">Secure) </span><span style="font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(255, 38, 0); color: rgb(255, 38, 0);" class="">service subtype</span> over mDNS.</span></p></li>
<li class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt; font-family: 'ArialMT'" class="">The domain portion of the service instance name MUST BE "local." for mDNS. </span></p>
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</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div>That way the reader will be clearly told that the second is a subtype of the first, which will hopefully reduce the need for a more lengthy explanation in the note. We could go so far as to reference RFC 6763 section 7.1.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div>2. ippfind should support the "_print._sub._ipp._tcp" syntax instead of or in addition to the "_ipp._tcp,_print" syntax for specifying the subtypes (as I suggested in a separate thread reporting a Linux bug) because the former is what is actually used on the wire and is used when you are using general DNS tools like dig.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Chris<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">Christopher Rizzo<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">Xerox Corporation<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">GDG/Discovery/Advance Technology<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">26600 SW Parkway Ave.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">Wilsonville, OR 97070-9251<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">Phone: (585) 314-6936<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">Email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Christopher.Rizzo@xerox.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Christopher.Rizzo@xerox.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">"The realization came over me with full force that a good part of the remainder of my life was going to be spent in finding errors in my own programs."<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;" class="">-Maurice Wilkes,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">Memoirs of a Computer Pioneer</i></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Michael Sweet <<a href="mailto:msweet@msweet.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">msweet@msweet.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Monday, March 2, 2020 at 12:51 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Christopher Rizzo <<a href="mailto:Christopher.Rizzo@xerox.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Christopher.Rizzo@xerox.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>PWG Workgroup <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ipp@pwg.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [IPP] PWG Call for Objections: IPP Transaction-Based Printing Extensions v1.1 (TRANS) (ends March 27, 2020)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Chris,<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On Mar 2, 2020, at 2:52 PM, Rizzo, Christopher <<a href="mailto:Christopher.Rizzo@xerox.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Christopher.Rizzo@xerox.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Thanks Mike,<br class=""> <br class="">Yes, I noticed the IPP Everywhere requirement after sending out the note.<br class=""> <br class="">So why do we need to distinguish between IPP and IPP Everywhere printers?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Because IPP printers have very limited requirements WRT file format support, attribute support, and so forth. Until AirPrint and IPP Everywhere, IPP was treated as just another protocol to send printer-specific data through, and even those printers that supported a generic PDL like PDF didn't necessarily support things like copies, media, and so forth.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">And if this is needed, is this the primary way to distinguish between them, or are there other indications? For example, is there an IPP Everywhere version TXT record (or should there be)?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">You may be able to "guess" based on the list of formats in the TXT record's "pdl" key, and once you connect to the printer you can do a Get-Printer-Attributes to confirm your guess.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">But browsing for _print._sub._ipp._tcp and _print._sub._ipps._tcp services (printers) is guaranteed to work...<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">And why use "_print" in IPP everywhere when Bonjour spec uses "_printer".<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The Bonjour Printing spec was written long before IPP, IPP Everywhere, or AirPrint were ubiquitous, so the focus was on being a) discoverable and b) supportable by all network printers regardless of protocol. LPD is the "flagship" protocol (ha!) and thus all printers have to register their service name for the "_printer._tcp" type (LPD), even if the port number is 0 (meaning "I don't really support this protocol").<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Since _printer._tcp is the flagship protocol, the sub-type for the printer's web page is "_printer._sub._http._tcp".<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">It all seems to just add confusion. Maybe IPP Everywhere spec should include information clearing up this confusion (ie - a note that says "_print" IPP Everywhere service advertisement should not be confused with "_printer" from Bonjour spec, and that the "_print" advertisement is different (required in addition to) from the standard Bonjour advertisement to specifically differentiate an IPP Everywhere supported printer).<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <br class="">Apologies for my confusion, but when you have to read several specs (RFC, AirPrint, Bonjour Printing spec, IPP Everywhere) and try to coalesce all the requirements, it gets a little confusing.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I want to avoid making things more confusing, and also don't want to restate every requirement from the Bonjour Printing specification...<br class=""><br class="">How about I add the following note at the end of section 4.2:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><blockquote style="margin-left: 30pt; margin-right: 0in;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Note: The first version of the Bonjour Printing Specification was published by Apple shortly after the Internet Printing Protocol was published by the IETF. As the Line Printer Daemon Protocol [RFC1179] was considered the most popular network printing protocol at the time, the "_printer._tcp" DNS-SD service type (LPD) was assigned as the "flagship" protocol for DNS-SD advertisements. Similarly, the HTTP service registration for the embedded web server uses the "_printer._sub._http._tcp" service type, even for IPP Printers.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">________________________<br class="">Michael Sweet<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">ipp mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">ipp@pwg.org</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>