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Hi Kevin,
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<div class="">Bill Wagner wrote a description of the situation with "document-format-details" earlier today. I've included it inline below your query. Please respond with your concerns or questions.</div>
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<div class="">Cheers,<br class="">
<div class="">Smith<br class="">
<br class="">
/**<br class="">
Smith Kennedy<br class="">
Chair, IEEE ISTO Printer Working Group<br class="">
HP Inc.<br class="">
*/<br class="">
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<div class="">On Apr 10, 2019, at 8:15 PM, Kevin Schader via ipp <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" class="">ipp@pwg.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hello,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Could the PWG please provide details on the rationale for obsoleting the document-format-details attribute in section 10.2 of the IPP Document Object v1.1 draft specification?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="https://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippdocobject11-20190318-rev.pdf" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippdocobject11-20190318-rev.pdf</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Best Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Kevin<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></b></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Kevin A. Schader<o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Executive Director<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Mopria Alliance<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><a href="http://www.mopria.org/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: blue;" class="">www.mopria.org</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(13, 75, 160);" class="">Global Inventures, Inc., a SmithBucklin Company</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">T: +1.925.275.6672 | F: +1.925.275.6691 | M: +1.925.389.7377</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(13, 75, 160);" class=""><a href="http://www.inventures.com/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(13, 75, 160);" class="">www.inventures.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(13, 75, 160);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
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<div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
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<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 40.8px; text-indent: -40.8px" class=""><font face=".AppleSystemUIFont" size="4" color="#000000" style="font: 14.0px '.AppleSystemUIFont'; color: #000000" class="">From: wamwagner--- via ipp <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" class="">ipp@pwg.org</a>></font></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 57.0px; text-indent: -57.0px" class=""><font face=".AppleSystemUIFont" size="4" color="#000000" style="font: 14.0px '.AppleSystemUIFont'; color: #000000" class="">Subject: [IPP] Issue of document-format-details Attribute</font></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 38.1px; text-indent: -38.1px" class=""><font face=".AppleSystemUIFont" size="4" color="#000000" style="font: 14.0px '.AppleSystemUIFont'; color: #000000" class="">Date: April 10, 2019 at 4:05:18 PM MDT</font></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 23.3px; text-indent: -23.3px" class=""><font face=".AppleSystemUIFont" size="4" color="#000000" style="font: 14.0px '.AppleSystemUIFont'; color: #000000" class="">To: PWG IPP Workgroup <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" class="">ipp@pwg.org</a>></font></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 25.4px; text-indent: -25.4px" class=""><font face=".AppleSystemUIFont" size="4" color="#000000" style="font: 14.0px '.AppleSystemUIFont'; color: #000000" class="">Cc: PWG Steering Committee <<a href="mailto:sc@pwg.org" class="">sc@pwg.org</a>></font></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 64.4px; text-indent: -64.4px" class=""><font face=".AppleSystemUIFont" size="4" color="#000000" style="font: 14.0px '.AppleSystemUIFont'; color: #000000" class="">Reply-To: <<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net" class="">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">I have presented here my understanding of an issue which I believe needs more discussion.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:12.0pt" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">At the IPP Workgroup Session of the February face-to-face on February 13, 2019, the following points were made in the presentation of Errata Updates to the IPP Document Object v1.1 specification</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none">"The "document-format-details", "document-format-details-detected", "document-format-version", and "document-format-version-detected " Document Status attributes are obsolete because these attributes
have poor interoperability (no registered values, no standard value formats) and have serious privacy issues."</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">and in the presentation of updates to the IPP Job Extensions v1.1 specification.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none">"The "document-format-details" and "document-format-version" attributes are obsolete because these attributes have poor interoperability (no registered values, no standard value formats) and
have serious privacy issues."</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none">Discussion considered the use of
<span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif" class=""> "document-format-details" with respect to job accounting, and the recommendation was to use document-metadata instead. Contributions relative to job accounting were invited.
<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif" class="">There have been some messages about a Job Accounting replacement for "document-format-details", and a
</span>Job Accounting BoF has been scheduled for the April face-to-face at 3:45 PM to 5:00 PM on April 17.
<span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif" class="">There was little discussion relative to the contention that these attributes were or should be made obsolete. Although it is understood that to make them officially obsolete would require
statements in a formally approved standards track PWG specification, it is reasonable that with no objection, such statements would be included in one or more of the specifications being developed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, at least one PWG member has recently objected to proceeding with making
<span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif" class="">"document-format-details" and
</span>"document-format-details-supported" attributes <span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif" class="">
obsolete, presumably because these attributes are being used.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">First, it might be desirable to consider the attributes. “document-format-details” is both a document status and an operation attribute, and is of the collection type, consisting of 8 members.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-format-details (1setOf collection)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-source-application-name (name(MAX)) 17<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-source-application-version (text(127)) 17<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-source-os-name (name(40)) 17<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-source-os-version (text(40)) 17<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-format (mimeMediaType) 18<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-format-device-id (text(127)) 18<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-format-version (text(127)) 18<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class="">document-natural-language (1setOf naturalLanguage)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"ArialMT",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“document-format-details-supported” (1setOf keyword) is a printer description attribute, with the keywords corresponding to the members of “document-format-details”<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Although the proposal to obsolete attributes did not include "document-format-details-supported ", since document-format-details-supported and several other attributes (e.g., "document-format-details-default", "document-format-details-detected",
"document-format-details-supplied") refer to 'document-format-details", these would also need to be made obsolete.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is understood that the request is to not obsolete or depreciate the "document-format-details" operation attribute or its members (except document-format-device-id), and to not obsolete or deprecate the "document-format-details-supported"
printer description attribute or its keywords (except document-format-device-id). It is unclear whether the request extends to the “document-format-details” document attribute.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The argument to obsolete these attributes is that some members of the "document-format-details" collection have "poor interoperability (no registered values, no standard value formats) and have serious privacy issues." The poor interoperability
stems from their "text" and "name" data types. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Text and Name syntaxes are used for attributes intended for human communication and may be presented in the selected natural language. It is understood that such attributes may not be interoperable from an automata viewpoint. The fact
that these attributes were so typed reflected a tradeoff of human readability vs machine interoperability. If machine interoperability is required, then indeed some more appropriate attributes should be used. But that does not necessarily diminish that value
of these attributes. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">With regard to privacy issues, I would like to see more discussion since it unclear to me what they might be.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope that this outline prompts comment from both sides to encourage better understanding at the April face-to-face meeting.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Bill Wagner</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
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