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<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Smith,<br><br></div>I pretty agree w/ you. If the duration is brief (which was the original<br></div>intent of IPP Identify-Printer when proposed), then the cancel is <br>
superfluous.<br></div><br></div>I don't think we can give a hard upper limit for the duration - instead<br></div>I suggest that implementations could support (e.g., via embedded<br>web server) changing the default times of various actions (e.g.,<br>
</div>blinking lights should probably last longer than audible signals).<br><br></div>I don't see the value in long durations (minutes) - tends to lead to<br></div>users cutting wires or taping over LEDs (there's a lively business<br>
among independent mechanics in destroying stupid car alarms,<br></div>which studies have shown have no impact on reducing theft).<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094<br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<br><br><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Does limiting the duration obviate the need for the additions, then? If the duration is brief, why provide a cancel option?<div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><div>
Smith<br><br><br>
</div></font></span><div><div class="h5">
<br><div><div>On 2013-12-10, at 10:17 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>
<div><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>I was wrong.<br><br></div>I agree with Mike and Smith that it's a service-level operation.<br><br></div>I also agree with Mike that we should not add "identify duration"<br>
</div>at all. The identity action should be brief (seconds, not minutes).<br></div>Otherwise, it becomes an annoyance for a shared workgroup<br></div>printer in the modern (barbarian) cubicles style of office.<br><br></div>
Cheers,<br></div> - Ira<br><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><br>
<br><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div>
<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">I agree with Mike on this. If I am a client and communicating with / using IPP Printers hosted on an IPP print server, I would want the Identify-Printer to map to the IPP Printer, which may or may not be implemented as a sub-system of the physical hardware of the print server (as represented by the System Control Service).<div>
<br></div><div>From that cloud discussion the other day, and this topic, I really feel like we need to have pictures, so that people can discuss topics from unambiguous scenarios. Trying to verbally describe the topology of a graph of edges and vertices can be awfully error prone.</div>
<div><span><font color="#888888"><br><div>
Smith<br><br><br>
</div></font></span><div><div>
<br><div><div>On 2013-12-10, at 9:36 AM, Michael Sweet <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Ira,<div><br><div><div>On Dec 10, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Bill,<br><br></div>I agree with you - that's what I was realizing when I wrote my previous note.<br></div>Identify-Xxx is a device-level operation.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>
I disagree, Identify-Xxx is a service-level operation that causes the identification of any physical device(s) associated with that service. We don't provide device interfaces, just service interfaces...</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">BTW - what about conflicts between two different services that receive <br>
conflicting Identify-Xxx operations (or cancels)?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>AFAIK, coordination of subunits between services is implementation-defined behavior. If one service is using the buzzer then another service has to wait (or error-out) to use it.</div>
<div><div><br></div><div>IMHO, cancel should only apply to the identification done by that service, not to all services.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><br></div>Cheers,<br>
</div>- Ira<br><br><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>
mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>
Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><br><br><div style="display:inline">
</div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:34 AM, William A Wagner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net" target="_blank">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Ira,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I suggest that what is being identified is the physical device, and that the System Control Service is the proper recipient. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bill Wagner<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ira McDonald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 09, 2013 5:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)<br><b>Cc:</b> <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [IPP] RFC: Identify-Printer mini-extension<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Smith,<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
Tricky. The "identify action duration" would be a new attribute (which<br>
would require a revision of JPS3 spec - yuck).<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">Mike's right that IPPSIX is the wrong place to do this - the conformance<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
shouldn't have anything to do with IPPSIX.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I also don't think that System Control Service should get into this business<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
- or maybe I'm crazy and that actually is the *right* place? Should SCS,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">rather than an individual service, be the target of this device-level operation?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Someday, we need a lightweight IPP registration for whole new attributes<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">(in an existing attribute group), I suspect.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- Ira<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333ff">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style="color:#6600cc">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">IMHO, these look fine. I wonder if the “identify action duration” needs to be covered by something? Does the System Control Service need to concern itself with this domain?<br><span style="color:#888888"><br>
<span>Smith</span></span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br><br>On 2013-12-09, at 12:53 PM, Michael Sweet <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>> All,<br>><br>> During our last Cloud Imaging Model WG meeting, we discussed having the ability to explicitly cancel a previous Identify-Printer operation. The consensus during that meeting was to add a new "identify-actions" keyword ('cancel') that would cancel any active identification mechanism.<br>
><br>> In addition, a new "printer-state-reasons" keyword ('identifying-printer' was proposed, although given the existing 'identify-printer-requested' value I like adding 'identify-printer-active' instead) would be added to allow a Client to discover whether a printer is currently identifying itself using an action other than 'cancel', which by definition stops any active identification and removes the new keyword from the "printer-state-reasons" attribute...<br>
><br>> The official registration would look like this:<br>><br>> Attributes (attribute syntax)<br>> Keyword Attribute Value Reference<br>> ----------------------- ---------<br>
> identify-actions (1setOf type2 keyword) [PWG5100.13]<br>> cancel<br>><br>> printer-state-reasons (1setOf type2 keyword) [RFC2911]<br>> identify-printer-active<br>><br>> Thoughts?<br>
><br>> (I considered adding this to IPPSIX, but since this has application outside of shared infrastructure/cloud deployments I think we should register it separately...)<br>><br>> _______________________________________________________________<br>
> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> ipp mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" target="_blank">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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