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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Ira,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Following your logic, should we consider maintaining AddHardcopyDocument as the top level in the SM tree and then expand the model with Add<RelevantPWGDefinedService>Document at the next level in the model for each service that can support hardcopy document input?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>--</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Paul Tykodi<br>Principal Consultant<br>TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC<br><br>Tel/Fax: 603-343-1820<br>Mobile: 603-866-0712<br>E-mail: <a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com">ptykodi@tykodi.com</a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>WWW: </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.tykodi.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.tykodi.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mfd-bounces@pwg.org [mailto:mfd-bounces@pwg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ira McDonald<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 07, 2013 11:16 AM<br><b>To:</b> Zehler, Peter; Ira McDonald<br><b>Cc:</b> IPP@pwg.org; mfd@pwg.org; Michael Sweet<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [MFD] [IPP] Don't redefine Hardcopy Document<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Which I think implies that I'd like to rename AddHardcopyDocument to<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>AddScanDocument.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>- Ira<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style='color:#3333FF'>http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6600CC'>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094<br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>At the risk of adding confusion...<br><br>We speak of submitting Jobs with document data by reference (URI)<br>or by value (attached). <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Why not just add "by scan (local scanner)".<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>What I don't like about the term "Hardcopy Document Object" is that <br>the word Scan or Scanner isn't there, but this is always the source.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>- Ira<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>PS - I dislike putting titlecase prefixes on Document Object or Job<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Object - it muddies readability.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style='color:#3333FF'>http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6600CC'>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:21 AM, Zehler, Peter <<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Well, I guess I’ll be quiet now except to say it would be a good time to describe the attributes and constraints on all three types of Documents. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Pete</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:navy'>Peter Zehler</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy'>Xerox Research Center Webster<br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Email: <a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Voice: <a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-8755" target="_blank">(585) 265-8755</a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>FAX: <a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-7441" target="_blank">(585) 265-7441</a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>US Mail: Peter Zehler</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Xerox Corp.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>800 Phillips Rd.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>M/S 128-25E</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Webster NY, 14580-9701</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Michael Sweet [mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@msweet.org" target="_blank">msweet@msweet.org</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:14 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b>To:</b> Zehler, Peter<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:IPP@pwg.org" target="_blank">IPP@pwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">mfd@pwg.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [IPP] Don't redefine Hardcopy Document<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Pete,<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I guess we are in violent agreement. One comment below.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 2013-08-06, at 12:54 PM, "Zehler, Peter" <<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Andale Mono","serif"'>..</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This is the difference between a Hardcopy Document and a Hardcopy Document /Object/. We need to define the latter and not the former.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><PZ>I see no subclasses of Documents in the PWG Semantic Model or IPP. Whether a document is added to a Job by value, by reference, or by reference to the output of the scanner subunit, it is still just a Document object. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am not suggesting a subclass of document.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We already categorize documents as "referenced" and "with attached document data". For hardcopy documents we would have a Document Object containing description attributes/elements that identify the source and properties of the hardcopy document.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I chose to call it a "Hardcopy Document Object" as opposed to a "Document Object with Associated Hardcopy Document Input Elements". How the digital representation is stored and when exactly the document is scanned are, IMHO, implementation specific.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Andale Mono","serif"'>_____________<br>Michael Sweet</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>ipp mailing list<br><a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br><a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" target="_blank">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>