attachment
<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>Never mind - I've gone into the weeds.<br><br></div>I didn't mean to infix the <service> at all. I meant to infix the<br></div>property of Hardcopy (or Scanned).<br>
<br></div>I've run afoul of naming conventions in SM operations...<br><br></div>Cheers,<br></div>- Ira<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094<br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<br><br><div style="display:inline">
</div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Zehler, Peter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I thought that was the original intention. We just needed to insure the operation parameters and the associated document attributes are consistent across all
the services.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">See PWG <a href="tel:5108.01-2011" value="+15108012011" target="_blank">5108.01-2011</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Table 77 MFD Common Operations and Antecedents<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Table 78 Basic MFD Interface Requests and Responses<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">section 7.3.1.1 Add<service>HardcopyDocument<u></u><u></u></span></p><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:navy">Peter Zehler</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Xerox Research Center Webster<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Email:
<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Voice: <a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-8755" value="+15852658755" target="_blank">(585) 265-8755</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">FAX: <a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-7441" value="+15852657441" target="_blank">(585) 265-7441</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">US Mail: Peter Zehler</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Xerox Corp.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">800 Phillips Rd.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">M/S 128-25E</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Webster NY, 14580-9701</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div><div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Paul Tykodi [mailto:<a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com" target="_blank">ptykodi@tykodi.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 07, 2013 11:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Ira McDonald'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:IPP@pwg.org" target="_blank">IPP@pwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">mfd@pwg.org</a>; 'Michael Sweet'; Zehler, Peter<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [MFD] [IPP] Don't redefine Hardcopy Document<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi Ira,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Following your logic, should we consider maintaining AddHardcopyDocument as the top level in the SM tree and then expand the model with Add<RelevantPWGDefinedService>Document
at the next level in the model for each service that can support hardcopy document input?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">/Paul<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">--</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Paul Tykodi<br>
Principal Consultant<br>
TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC<br>
<br>
Tel/Fax: <a href="tel:603-343-1820" value="+16033431820" target="_blank">603-343-1820</a><br>
Mobile: <a href="tel:603-866-0712" value="+16038660712" target="_blank">603-866-0712</a><br>
E-mail: <a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com" target="_blank">ptykodi@tykodi.com</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">WWW:
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.tykodi.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">http://www.tykodi.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:mfd-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">mfd-bounces@pwg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:mfd-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">mailto:mfd-bounces@pwg.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ira McDonald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 07, 2013 11:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zehler, Peter; Ira McDonald<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:IPP@pwg.org" target="_blank">IPP@pwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">
mfd@pwg.org</a>; Michael Sweet<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MFD] [IPP] Don't redefine Hardcopy Document<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Which I think implies that I'd like to rename AddHardcopyDocument to<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">AddScanDocument.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- Ira<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333ff">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style="color:#6600cc">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>
Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">At the risk of adding confusion...<br>
<br>
We speak of submitting Jobs with document data by reference (URI)<br>
or by value (attached). <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Why not just add "by scan (local scanner)".<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">What I don't like about the term "Hardcopy Document Object" is that
<br>
the word Scan or Scanner isn't there, but this is always the source.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- Ira<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">PS - I dislike putting titlecase prefixes on Document Object or Job<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Object - it muddies readability.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333ff">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style="color:#6600cc">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" target="_blank">
734-944-0094</a><br>
Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" target="_blank">
906-494-2434</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:21 AM, Zehler, Peter <<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Mike,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Well, I guess I’ll be quiet now except to say it would be a good time to describe the attributes
and constraints on all three types of Documents. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Pete</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:navy">Peter Zehler</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Xerox Research Center Webster<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Email:
<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Voice:
<a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-8755" target="_blank">(585) 265-8755</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">FAX:
<a href="tel:%28585%29%20265-7441" target="_blank">(585) 265-7441</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">US Mail: Peter Zehler</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Xerox Corp.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">800 Phillips Rd.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">M/S 128-25E</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Webster NY, 14580-9701</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Michael Sweet [mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@msweet.org" target="_blank">msweet@msweet.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:14 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Zehler, Peter<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:IPP@pwg.org" target="_blank">IPP@pwg.org</a>; <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org" target="_blank">
mfd@pwg.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [IPP] Don't redefine Hardcopy Document<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pete,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I guess we are in violent agreement. One comment below.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2013-08-06, at 12:54 PM, "Zehler, Peter" <<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com" target="_blank">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Andale Mono","serif"">..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is the difference between a Hardcopy Document and a Hardcopy Document /Object/. We need to define the latter and not the former.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><PZ>I see no subclasses of Documents in the PWG Semantic Model or IPP. Whether a document is added
to a Job by value, by reference, or by reference to the output of the scanner subunit, it is still just a Document object. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am not suggesting a subclass of document.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We already categorize documents as "referenced" and "with attached document data". For hardcopy documents we would have a Document Object containing description attributes/elements
that identify the source and properties of the hardcopy document.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I chose to call it a "Hardcopy Document Object" as opposed to a "Document Object with Associated Hardcopy Document Input Elements". How the digital representation is stored and
when exactly the document is scanned are, IMHO, implementation specific.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Andale Mono","serif"">_____________<br>
Michael Sweet</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
ipp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" target="_blank">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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