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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><base href="x-msg://1579/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Pete,<div><br></div><div>The point of the discussion in the SM and IPP WGs is not to redefine what a hardcopy document is (although I would like to generalize what was put in 5108.01 since it ties them to specific services), but to include the definition of it and the corresponding (Hardcopy) Document Object (the digital representation of the hardcopy document) in the SM and IPP specifications.</div><div><br></div><div>Comments inline, but I'll make sure we include this in our discussions on Thursday...</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On 2013-08-06, at 9:26 AM, "Zehler, Peter" <<a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com">Peter.Zehler@xerox.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: 'Andale Mono'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">All,<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">A Hardcopy document is not an electronic format. The industry, and the PWG, have existing definitions that are in agreement (See below). A hardcopy document is physical media. In the PWG Semantic Model Documents are objects with references to document content that is an electronic document representation (e.g. PDF, JPEG, PCL, vendor specific). These representations have a type using MIME media types (See rfc2911 section 3.2.1.1). </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is the difference between a Hardcopy Document and a Hardcopy Document /Object/. We need to define the latter and not the former.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: 'Andale Mono'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">In IPP document content was either pass by value (i.e. via Print-Job or Send-Document) or by reference (i.e., Print-URI or Send-URI). For a FAX service we needed to represent the historical FAX paradigm of FAXing a hardcopy document. It is similar to a Send-URI but constrained to a reference to document content being obtained via the MFD’s scanner subunit. Note that a mobile device that acquires an image from a hardcopy document would not issue an Add-Hardcopy-Document to the MFD. The mobile device would use the Send-Document or Send-URI based on how the document content would be transferred to the target MFD.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I disagree - mobile devices can and are used as a front-end to the MFD today. The hardcopy document may, in fact, be loaded in the MFD. The mobile device can scan and then send the scanned data to the MFD /or/ it can simple create a job that references the loaded hardcopy document to avoid the intermediate data transfers. And given that the scan destination semantics require some form of intermediate storage, I would argue that mobile devices would prefer to use Send/Add-Hardcopy-Document over scanning and submitting the scan.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: 'Andale Mono'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; ">I have no objection to normalizing the parameters for Adding a Hardcopy Document to a job. The ScanDocumentProcessing/CopyDocumentProcessing.CopyInput could easily be applied to AddHardcopyDocument and would apply to a number of services.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Right, that is the point of our discussions - how do we model Hardcopy Document /Objects/ (digital representations of Hardcopy Documents) in the SM and IPP? Aside from generalizing the Send/Add-Hardcopy-Document operation for multiple services, we need this for Cloud/IPPSIX to support indirect access to MFD scanners.</div><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: 'Andale Mono'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Pete<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Existing definitions of Hardcopy Document:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><b>From Federal Standard 1037C (Telecommunications: Glossary of Telecommunication Terms):</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“hard copy: In computer graphics and in telecommunications, a permanent reproduction, on any media suitable for direct use by a person, of displayed or transmitted data. (188) Note 1: Examples of hard copy include teletypewriter pages, continuous printed tapes, facsimile pages, computer printouts, and radiophoto prints. Note 2: Magnetic tapes, diskettes, and nonprinted punched paper tapes are not hard copy.”<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><b> </b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><b>From Alliance for Telecommunications Industry Solutions Telecom Glossary</b>: “In computer graphics and in telecommunications, a permanent reproduction, on any media suitable for direct use by a person, of displayed or transmitted data. Note 1: Examples of hard copy include teletypewriter pages, continuous printed tapes, facsimile pages, computer printouts, and radiophoto prints. Note 2: Magnetic tapes, diskettes, and nonprinted punched paper tapes are not hard copy.”<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><b>From Printer Working Group (PWG 5108.01):<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>“Hardcopy Document: A Document on physical media such as paper, transparency or film that is the input source to Scan, Copy and FaxOut Services and the output from Print, Copy and FaxIn Services”<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-family: Impact, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Peter Zehler</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Xerox Research Center Webster<br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: blue; ">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</span></a><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Voice: (585) 265-8755</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">FAX: (585) 265-7441</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">US Mail: Peter Zehler</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Xerox Corp.</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">800 Phillips Rd.</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">M/S 128-25E</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Webster NY, 14580-9701</span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>ipp mailing list<br><a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">ipp@pwg.org</a><br><a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Andale Mono'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">_____________<br>Michael Sweet<br></div></span></span>
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