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Hi,<br><br>Although it seems suitable, separating color names/values<br>into two tables (media and colorant) would be a bad idea<br>because ISO DPA (ISO 10175), Printer MIB v2 (RFC 3805),<br>IPP/1.1 (RFC 2911), and CIP4 JDF all conflate/combine<br>
the names into a single list. Two lists in MSN would break<br>some of the mixed use (e.g., in RFC 3805) in different<br>properties and would make job ticket mapping much harder.<br><br>My two cents.<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br clear="all">
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>
Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Winter 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094<br>Summer PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Petrie, Glen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Mike, <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">I agree with your points you make below
Given has a chance, any discussion or specification related to color quickly
gets out of hand. So keeping the list short and color values “representative”
is the best course of action. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Glen<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Michael Sweet
[mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 30, 2012 2:51
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP] Media Color for
MSN spec</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Glen,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Mar 30, 2012, at 2:27 PM, Petrie, Glen wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Mike<u></u><u></u></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u></u> <u></u></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Thanks for jogging my memory on some of
the more vivid colored media. I still not sure colorant and media with the
same color name are the same color. I looked at these and others; most do
not give rgb values and in many cases a color name like “green” is used for
several different “green colored” media. </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Right. IMHO our focus for the MSN color names should be on
identifying common or primary colors with simple variations (I like light,
dark, and clear) along with the reference sRGB values. Ultimately a client
should be able to present UI with both the name and the reference color to
facilitate media selection or monitoring of printer supplies.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">We shouldn't get stuck on having exact matches for color since a) that
isn't feasible given the number of different media and colorants we would need
to list and b) the viewing conditions and technologies are different enough
that the sRGB value displayed on-screen is never going to exactly match the
media or colorant anyways.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">As you stated in the last email “magenta
colored media” is sold as pink/fluorescent-pink. So do we have magenta
colorant and pink/fluorescent-pink media; even thought they are the
“”””same”””” color. Is there a “well-known” list of colored media
names?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">There are several :) including the specs we already reference. However,
none of them exactly match what is manufactured today and due to the issues I
mentioned above I don't think it matters that we have an exhaustive list or
"accurate" sRGB reference values for the non-primary colors.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Perhaps,
as time, permits I can contact one or more manufactures to see if can provide
rgb values for the various colored and white media. Short of that, I have
a spectrometer that I could actually measure samples to determine a media rgb
value for each color media we decide to list.</span></font></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Aside from maybe Teal in my list below (which doesn't have a close
match), I don't think we need to extend our current list. New colors can be
added using our standard naming convention with sRGB reference values, and I
have no objection to listing common aliases for some colors, e.g., Purple
-> Dark Magenta, Fuschia/Fluorescent Pink -> Magenta, Salmon
-> Light Pink, etc. like we do for media sizes.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">We could also allow <standardcolorname>_RRGGBB[AA] to identify a
specific version of a named color - that would allow for localization using the
standard names but presentation using the custom color.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Thoughts?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Monaco" size="4"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Monaco">Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System
Engineer, PWG Chair<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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