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<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Apr 25, 2011, at 9:45 AM, Petrie, Glen wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class="Section1"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue"><o:p><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Helvetica"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;">...</span></font> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] What, this is the very definition
of incompatibility; I a devices receives a CUPS raster file with some
vendor-data in the position of the page number and it does not represent the
page number then no telling what will happen.</span></font></p></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div><br></div>By definition all of these fields are driver-specific and cannot be interpreted outside that particular driver.</div><div><br></div><div>(in this case a PWG Raster driver)</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class="Section1"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] If you change the PWG raster file
identifier so it does not match CUPS raster then is this not produce a
conflict; because they would not longer be the same thing. Right now, no one
reading a CUPS raster or PWG raster change tell which is which.</span></font></p></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div><br></div>Actually, you can - if the PageSize field is all 0's, then it isn't a CUPS Raster file which will always have the media size in integer points...<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px; "> </span></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class="Section1"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] I disagree. You mean that your/the
proposed Job Ticket does have the duplex setting or the layout orientation data.
If not, how can someone ever generate the correct print output!!! </span></font></p></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div><br></div>The job ticket has "sides", which is an instruction to do duplex printing. However, it doesn't tell the printer how the raster data was generated.</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class="Section1"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: Cambria; ">The
Job Ticket will specify the output format (duplex, flip, rotate); therefore,
transforms data and information are part of the Job Ticket and the raster must
be transformed to the correct orientation required so that the printer (or any
consumer of the raster) does not know or have to perform the transforms.</span></span></font></p></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote>The job ticket has "sides" and "orientation-requested". We don't require the printer support anything other than "portrait" orientation and the printer tells the client how to send the back side of duplex pages, so the client may have to pre-rotate/flip the bitmap data (or the intermediate format that is converted to a bitmap) before sending it to the printer.</div><div><br></div><div>However, there is no indication to the printer what rotation or flipping was actually done for a given page. That information is *not* present in the job ticket, and I would argue that it is not appropriate for inclusion in the job ticket because it is a) format-specific and b) informational rather than directive.</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class="Section1"><div><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Helvetica">...</font></font></span></p></div></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class="Section1"><div><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Cambria; font-size: 16px; ">Raster
data means the data is rastered-out and should not require additional
transforms (scaling might be an exception); the transforms here may require the
printer to have rotation buffers which could be large and expensive to
implement; not desirable.</span></p></div></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote>Agreed.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class="Section1"><div><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: Cambria; font-size: 16px; ">Therefore, I am opposed to adding the
specific PWR element for Horizontal and Vertical Transform. If a vendor
which to use transforms, then it is part of their driver specific information
but not an official PWG Raster element.</span></p></div></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div>That isn't the point of these fields - they are informational, not directive. A low-end printer will likely ignore them since the assumption is that the client did the right thing. Instead, this is for high-end printers and Cloud services that may need to "tweak" the raster document before sending it to the real output device.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class="Section1"><div><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: Cambria; font-size: 16px; ">The same logic applies to the total
number of page.</span></p></div></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></div></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div>How?</div><div><br></div></div><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>________________________________________________________________________<br>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<br></div></span>
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