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<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Apr 25, 2011, at 7:23 AM, Petrie, Glen wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street">
<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode">
<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State">
<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City">
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<div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Doesn’t “using them for PWG
Raster” make the CUPS and PWG raster incompatible?</span></font></p></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div><br></div>Not at all. All of the cupsInteger, cupsReal, and cupsString fields are driver-specific use. In this case the "driver" is the generic IPP Everywhere/PWG Raster path.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue"><div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: Cambria; ">I believe the current fields for
proposed to use the driver-specific same are not needed.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">1. “total number of pages” </span></font></p></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div><br></div>Given that many existing CUPS Raster drivers want this information, I think this is at least useful information to expose (when available).</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue"><div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">2. HorizontalTransform<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">3. VerticalTransform </span></font></p></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div><br></div>These *are* necessary if the raster data could be consumed by a different imaging device than originally targeted (likely in the Cloud case).</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue"><div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: Cambria; ">The Job Ticket will specify the output format
(duplex, flip, rotate); therefore, transforms data and information are part of
the Job Ticket and the raster must be transformed to the correct orientation required
so that the printer (or any consumer of the raster) does not know or have to perform
the transforms.</span></p></div></div></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote><div><br></div>The transform information for back sides are not exposed in job tickets, only as printer description attributes for clients who are generating the raster data. The assumption (and conformance requirement) is that the client will produce raster data in a supported color space, bit depth, resolution, dimensions, and coordinate space - this doesn't require the transform information in the header.</div><div><br></div><div>However, there are two specific use cases where that information may be necessary:</div><div><br></div><div>1. For fan-out devices, the IPP Printer may need to do transforms on the PWG Raster data to make it suitable for any of the devices.</div><div>2. For Cloud Printing the Cloud Imaging Provider may need to do transforms on the PWG Raster data to make it suitable for the Cloud Imaging Manager.</div><div><br></div><div>Since the transform information is not in the job ticket, does not express intent (i.e. all job template attributes tell you how to print a job - any descriptive elements are sent as operation attributes), and since that transform information is specific to PWG Raster documents, it makes sense to put the transform information in the PWG Raster document.</div><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue"><div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-family: Cambria; "> Raster data means the data is rastered-out and should not
require additional transforms (scaling might be an exception); the transforms
here may require the printer to have rotation buffers which could be large and
expensive to implement; not desirable.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Therefore, I am opposed to adding the
specific PWR element for Horizontal and Vertical Transform. If a vendor
which to use transforms, then it is part of their driver specific information
but not an official PWG Raster element.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">The same logic applies to the total
number of page.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Thus, not officially specifying the
elements above or any new elements in the driver data space continues to make
CUPS and PWG raster 100% compatible but allow drivers (vendors) to add them and
other data as they deem necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Glen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Mike Sweet
[mailto:msweet@apple.com] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 25, 2011 6:51
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com">ptykodi@tykodi.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP] Requested
Additions to PWG Raster</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">I can add them, with the caveat that some of the cupsInteger fields
will be used for PWG Raster.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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12.0pt"><br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
On Apr 25, 2011, at 6:28 AM, "Petrie, Glen" <<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite">
<div><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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</xml><![endif]-->Paul,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">I would like to change my request to the
following<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">I would like to request that that 16
integer, 16 floating point and 16 string that are denoted in CUPS raster as
driver-defined be added to the PWG raster.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">I realize it is a mute point for this
request since the data elements are already reserved in CUPS raster and, as
such, are by defacto, inherited by the PWG raster (even if in the shadow or not
specifically declared) as long as the PWG raster maintains 100% compatible with
CUPS raster.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">These fields do not jerry-rig additions
to either the CUPS or PWG raster since they are already defined by CUPS.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">These fields do not cause any
interpretability testing issues since they are driver specific information.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Glen<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Paul Tykodi
[mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 22, 2011 4:28
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a>;
'Ira McDonald'; <a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com"></a><a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com">msweet@apple.com</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [IPP] Requested
Additions to PWG Raster</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Hi Glen,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Where we are
currently reaching out to some printer manufacturers who have previously not
participated in PWG activities (portable printer manufacturers, thermal
transfer-direct thermal printer manufacturers) to let them know about the IPP
Anywhere project and the PWG Raster Format, I am in favor of waiting for a
little while to see if we get some interest from the reach out activities
before making a final decision on your request.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">If we do get some
participation from the printer manufacturers outlined above, they might also
find some value in the feature you are requesting so I believe it is a little
premature to reject the idea of adding the field at this time.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Best Regards,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D">--</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<u1:p></u1:p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D">Paul Tykodi<br>
Principal Consultant<br>
TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC<br>
<br>
Tel/Fax: 603-343-1820<br>
<st1:city u4:st="on"><st1:place u4:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Mobile</st1:place></st1:city></st1:place></st1:city>:
603-866-0712<br>
E-mail: <a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com"></a><a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com">ptykodi@tykodi.com</a></span></font><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><br>
</span></font><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#1F497D">WWW: </span></font><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.tykodi.com/" target="_blank"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family:Arial">http://www.tykodi.com</span></font></a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<u1:p></u1:p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>
[mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Petrie,
Glen<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 22, 2011 3:08
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Ira McDonald<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org"></a><a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [IPP] Requested
Additions to PWG Raster<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Uncle !!!!!!!!!<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">It is an optional field and completely
testable in an interoperability test.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Glen<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Ira McDonald
[mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 22, 2011 11:52
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen; Ira McDonald<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Michael Sweet; <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org"></a><a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP] Requested
Additions to PWG Raster</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">Hi Glen,<br>
<br>
I agree with Mike here in objecting to registering these fields.<br>
<br>
PWG standards are supposed to only contain fields/attributes<br>
that *could* be tested in an interoperability event. It's not<br>
plausible that a typical streaming client would know the size <br>
when it's very large (when the feature's useful), so such a<br>
feature's not interoperable or verifiable.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br clear="all">
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><font color="#6600cc"><span style="color:#6600CC">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></font></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Christmas through April:<br>
<st1:address u4:st="on"><st1:street u4:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on">579 Park Place</st1:street></st1:address></st1:street> <st1:city u4:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Saline</st1:city></st1:city>, <st1:state u4:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">MI</st1:state></st1:state> <st1:postalcode u4:st="on"><st1:postalcode w:st="on">48176</st1:postalcode></st1:postalcode></st1:address><br>
734-944-0094<br>
May to Christmas:<br>
<st1:address u4:st="on"><st1:street u4:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:street></st1:address></st1:street> 221</st1:address>
Grand <st1:place u4:st="on"><st1:city u4:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Marais</st1:city></st1:place></st1:city>, <st1:state u4:st="on"><st1:state w:st="on">MI</st1:state></st1:state> <st1:postalcode u4:st="on"><st1:postalcode w:st="on">49839</st1:postalcode></st1:postalcode></st1:place><br>
906-494-2434<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Petrie, Glen <<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com"></a><a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>>
wrote:<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue">As stated below, I do understand objection to adding the field.
I would to hear from other PWG members on the addition of these fields.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue"> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue">Glen</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue"> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue"> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Michael Sweet [mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com">msweet@apple.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 22, 2011 10:20
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP] Requested
Additions to PWG Raster</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Apr 22, 2011,
at 9:34 AM, Petrie, Glen wrote:<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">...<font color="blue"><span style="color:blue"> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue">[gwp] The important case is the size of the compressed raster data.
The decompressed size is recorded only if the raster is uncompressed.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue">[gwp] I agree that some (a few or a lot) of implementation may not
provide the information but as I said, I am requesting that the assignment be
made and those who can (want to) may record the size information.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">It really isn't a
matter of "may not provide", in most cases clients (and printers)
simply can't buffer hundreds of megabytes of raster data I can add the field,
but since most producers of PWG Raster will not be able to supply the
compressed size of the raster no printer will be able to depend on it anyways,
so IMHO it is best to have the printer, if it is going to do any local
processing of full page images, use its own optimal internal storage format
than try to gerry-rig something into the format that just won't work.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue"> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue">[gwp] As I stated in my original request, I am not worried about
the printer, it will accept the streaming input just fine. I want the
size information for navigation of a many page raster without having to
decompress pages in a serial manor. I am not jerry-rigging
anything. I do not understand your comment “that just won’t
work”. It works fine. In fact, I wrote a routine that will
find the size-only of compressed page by running the compression routine
without storing the compressed data. I don’t understand your
objection to assigning the field.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="4" color="blue" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:blue"> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="4" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black">...</span></font> <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I would actually
prefer to flag the file as version 3 which is an uncompressed CUPS Raster with
the version 2 page header. And in the case of local processing, you'll likely want
to use native word order (another feature of CUPS Raster that we are not
bringing along for PWG Raster...)<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue"> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue">[gwp] Do you mean big/little-endian? I am nothing requesting
the word ordering flag (value) be used. The current specification is ok.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">My main point was
that if you are concerned about having a standard representation for
intermediate data, CUPS Raster already provides that. If you are trying to
tweak PWG Raster for use as an internal representation format then I'd rather
not put that in the standard since internal formats are OOS for any PWG
standard.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Would it be
sufficient to document an uncompressed version of PWG Raster (with the
"RAS3" file header) and then mark the native word order support as
out-of-scope for the spec but something that might be used internally?<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue"> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue">[gwp] I believe the RAS3 is for the entire PWG Raster file. I
am requesting a flags (value) for individual pages. </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Since the format
does not support this, I would be opposed to adding something that would be
used only for an internal representation of a PWG Raster file.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue"> </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" color="blue" face="Cambria"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue">[gwp] Again, I do not understand your objection. </span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="4" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black">________________________________________________________________________<br>
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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12.0pt"><br>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
ipp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>________________________________________________________________________<br>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<br></div></span>
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