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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Glen,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Where we are currently reaching out to some printer manufacturers who have previously not participated in PWG activities (portable printer manufacturers, thermal transfer-direct thermal printer manufacturers) to let them know about the IPP Anywhere project and the PWG Raster Format, I am in favor of waiting for a little while to see if we get some interest from the reach out activities before making a final decision on your request.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If we do get some participation from the printer manufacturers outlined above, they might also find some value in the feature you are requesting so I believe it is a little premature to reject the idea of adding the field at this time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:110pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>/Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>--</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Paul Tykodi<br>Principal Consultant<br>TCS - Tykodi Consulting Services LLC<br><br>Tel/Fax: 603-343-1820<br>Mobile: 603-866-0712<br>E-mail: <a href="mailto:ptykodi@tykodi.com">ptykodi@tykodi.com</a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>WWW: </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.tykodi.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>http://www.tykodi.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ipp-bounces@pwg.org [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Petrie, Glen<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 22, 2011 3:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> Ira McDonald<br><b>Cc:</b> ipp@pwg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [IPP] Requested Additions to PWG Raster<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>Uncle !!!!!!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>It is an optional field and completely testable in an interoperability test.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>Glen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Ira McDonald [mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 22, 2011 11:52 AM<br><b>To:</b> Petrie, Glen; Ira McDonald<br><b>Cc:</b> Michael Sweet; ipp@pwg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [IPP] Requested Additions to PWG Raster</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Glen,<br><br>I agree with Mike here in objecting to registering these fields.<br><br>PWG standards are supposed to only contain fields/attributes<br>that *could* be tested in an interoperability event. It's not<br>plausible that a typical streaming client would know the size <br>when it's very large (when the feature's useful), so such a<br>feature's not interoperable or verifiable.<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br clear=all>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6600CC'>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Christmas through April:<br> 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br> 734-944-0094<br>May to Christmas:<br> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839<br> 906-494-2434<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Petrie, Glen <<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>As stated below, I do understand objection to adding the field. I would to hear from other PWG members on the addition of these fields.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>Glen</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Michael Sweet [mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 22, 2011 10:20 AM<br><b>To:</b> Petrie, Glen<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [IPP] Requested Additions to PWG Raster</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Petrie, Glen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>...<span style='color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>[gwp] The important case is the size of the compressed raster data. The decompressed size is recorded only if the raster is uncompressed.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>[gwp] I agree that some (a few or a lot) of implementation may not provide the information but as I said, I am requesting that the assignment be made and those who can (want to) may record the size information.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It really isn't a matter of "may not provide", in most cases clients (and printers) simply can't buffer hundreds of megabytes of raster data I can add the field, but since most producers of PWG Raster will not be able to supply the compressed size of the raster no printer will be able to depend on it anyways, so IMHO it is best to have the printer, if it is going to do any local processing of full page images, use its own optimal internal storage format than try to gerry-rig something into the format that just won't work.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>[gwp] As I stated in my original request, I am not worried about the printer, it will accept the streaming input just fine. I want the size information for navigation of a many page raster without having to decompress pages in a serial manor. I am not jerry-rigging anything. I do not understand your comment “that just won’t work”. It works fine. In fact, I wrote a routine that will find the size-only of compressed page by running the compression routine without storing the compressed data. I don’t understand your objection to assigning the field.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>...</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I would actually prefer to flag the file as version 3 which is an uncompressed CUPS Raster with the version 2 page header. And in the case of local processing, you'll likely want to use native word order (another feature of CUPS Raster that we are not bringing along for PWG Raster...)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>[gwp] Do you mean big/little-endian? I am nothing requesting the word ordering flag (value) be used. The current specification is ok.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>My main point was that if you are concerned about having a standard representation for intermediate data, CUPS Raster already provides that. If you are trying to tweak PWG Raster for use as an internal representation format then I'd rather not put that in the standard since internal formats are OOS for any PWG standard.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Would it be sufficient to document an uncompressed version of PWG Raster (with the "RAS3" file header) and then mark the native word order support as out-of-scope for the spec but something that might be used internally?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>[gwp] I believe the RAS3 is for the entire PWG Raster file. I am requesting a flags (value) for individual pages. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Since the format does not support this, I would be opposed to adding something that would be used only for an internal representation of a PWG Raster file.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>[gwp] Again, I do not understand your objection. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>________________________________________________________________________<br>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>-- <br>This message has been scanned for viruses and <br>dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/" target="_blank"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br>believed to be clean. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>ipp mailing list<br><a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br><a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp" target="_blank">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br>-- <br>This message has been scanned for viruses and <br>dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br>believed to be clean. <o:p></o:p></p></div><br />--
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