attachment-0001
Hi Glen,<br><br>I agree with Mike here in objecting to registering these fields.<br><br>PWG standards are supposed to only contain fields/attributes<br>that *could* be tested in an interoperability event. It's not<br>
plausible that a typical streaming client would know the size <br>when it's very large (when the feature's useful), so such a<br>feature's not interoperable or verifiable.<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br clear="all">
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
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mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Christmas through April:<br> 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br> 734-944-0094<br>May to Christmas:<br> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839<br>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Petrie, Glen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">As stated below, I do understand
objection to adding the field. I would to hear from other PWG members on
the addition of these fields.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Glen</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Michael Sweet
[mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 22, 2011 10:20
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP] Requested
Additions to PWG Raster</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Petrie, Glen wrote:</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">...<span><font color="blue"><span style="color:blue"> </span></font></span></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] The important case is the size of
the compressed raster data. The decompressed size is recorded only if the
raster is uncompressed.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] I agree that some (a few or a lot)
of implementation may not provide the information but as I said, I am
requesting that the assignment be made and those who can (want to) may record
the size information.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">It really isn't a matter of "may not provide", in most cases
clients (and printers) simply can't buffer hundreds of megabytes of raster
data. I can add the field, but since most producers of PWG Raster will not be
able to supply the compressed size of the raster no printer will be able to depend
on it anyways, so IMHO it is best to have the printer, if it is going to do any
local processing of full page images, use its own optimal internal storage
format than try to gerry-rig something into the format that just won't work.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] As I stated in my original request,
I am not worried about the printer, it will accept the streaming input just
fine. I want the size information for navigation of a many page raster
without having to decompress pages in a serial manor. I am not jerry-rigging
anything. I do not understand your comment “that just won’t
work”. It works fine. In fact, I wrote a routine that will
find the size-only of compressed page by running the compression routine
without storing the compressed data. I don’t understand your
objection to assigning the field.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><font color="black" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">...</span></font></span> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I would actually prefer to flag the file as version 3 which is an
uncompressed CUPS Raster with the version 2 page header. And in the case of
local processing, you'll likely want to use native word order (another feature
of CUPS Raster that we are not bringing along for PWG Raster...)</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] Do you mean big/little-endian?
I am nothing requesting the word ordering flag (value) be used. The
current specification is ok.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">My main point was that if you are concerned about having a standard
representation for intermediate data, CUPS Raster already provides that. If you
are trying to tweak PWG Raster for use as an internal representation format
then I'd rather not put that in the standard since internal formats are OOS for
any PWG standard.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Would it be sufficient to document an uncompressed version of PWG
Raster (with the "RAS3" file header) and then mark the native word
order support as out-of-scope for the spec but something that might be used
internally?</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] I believe the RAS3 is for the
entire PWG Raster file. I am requesting a flags (value) for individual
pages. </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Since the format does not support this, I would be opposed to adding
something that would be used only for an internal representation of a PWG
Raster file.</span></font></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">[gwp] Again, I do not understand your
objection. </span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Helvetica" size="4"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">________________________________________________________________________<br>
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair</span></font></p>
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