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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>Uncle !!!!!!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>It is an optional field and completely
testable in an interoperability test.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>Glen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Ira McDonald
[mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 22, 2011 11:52
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen; Ira McDonald<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Michael Sweet; ipp@pwg.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP] Requested
Additions to PWG Raster</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi Glen,<br>
<br>
I agree with Mike here in objecting to registering these fields.<br>
<br>
PWG standards are supposed to only contain fields/attributes<br>
that *could* be tested in an interoperability event. It's not<br>
plausible that a typical streaming client would know the size <br>
when it's very large (when the feature's useful), so such a<br>
feature's not interoperable or verifiable.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br clear=all>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><font
color="#6600cc"><span style='color:#6600CC'>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></font></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Christmas through April:<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">579 Park Place</st1:Street>
<st1:City w:st="on">Saline</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">48176</st1:PostalCode></st1:address><br>
734-944-0094<br>
May to Christmas:<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street> 221</st1:address>
Grand <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Marais</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49839</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
906-494-2434<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Petrie, Glen <<a
href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'>As stated below, I do understand objection to adding the field.
I would to hear from other PWG members on the addition of these fields.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'>Glen</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Michael Sweet [mailto:<a
href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 22, 2011 10:20
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org"
target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP] Requested
Additions to PWG Raster</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Apr 22, 2011,
at 9:34 AM, Petrie, Glen wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite><span
style='word-spacing:0px'>
<div link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>...<font
color=blue><span style='color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'>[gwp] The important case is the size of the compressed raster data.
The decompressed size is recorded only if the raster is uncompressed.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'>[gwp] I agree that some (a few or a lot) of implementation may not
provide the information but as I said, I am requesting that the assignment be
made and those who can (want to) may record the size information.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>It really isn't a
matter of "may not provide", in most cases clients (and printers)
simply can't buffer hundreds of megabytes of raster data. I can add the field,
but since most producers of PWG Raster will not be able to supply the
compressed size of the raster no printer will be able to depend on it anyways,
so IMHO it is best to have the printer, if it is going to do any local
processing of full page images, use its own optimal internal storage format
than try to gerry-rig something into the format that just won't work.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'>[gwp] As I stated in my original request, I am not worried about
the printer, it will accept the streaming input just fine. I want the
size information for navigation of a many page raster without having to decompress
pages in a serial manor. I am not jerry-rigging anything. I
do not understand your comment “that just won’t work”. It works
fine. In fact, I wrote a routine that will find the size-only of
compressed page by running the compression routine without storing the
compressed data. I don’t understand your objection to assigning the
field.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color=blue face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'>...</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I would actually
prefer to flag the file as version 3 which is an uncompressed CUPS Raster with
the version 2 page header. And in the case of local processing, you'll likely
want to use native word order (another feature of CUPS Raster that we are not
bringing along for PWG Raster...)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'>[gwp] Do you mean big/little-endian? I am nothing requesting
the word ordering flag (value) be used. The current specification is ok.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>My main point was
that if you are concerned about having a standard representation for
intermediate data, CUPS Raster already provides that. If you are trying to
tweak PWG Raster for use as an internal representation format then I'd rather
not put that in the standard since internal formats are OOS for any PWG
standard.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<span style='word-spacing:0px'>
<div link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Would it be
sufficient to document an uncompressed version of PWG Raster (with the
"RAS3" file header) and then mark the native word order support as
out-of-scope for the spec but something that might be used internally?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'>[gwp] I believe the RAS3 is for the entire PWG Raster file. I
am requesting a flags (value) for individual pages. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Since the format
does not support this, I would be opposed to adding something that would be
used only for an internal representation of a PWG Raster file.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;
color:blue'>[gwp] Again, I do not understand your objection. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><span style='text-align:auto;word-spacing:0px'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color=black face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:
Helvetica;color:black'>________________________________________________________________________<br>
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
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12.0pt'><br>
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