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<html><head><base href="x-msg://412/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Justin,</div><div><br></div>I'll include that in the comments for the next review of PWG Raster (next telecon) and incorporate the changes in the followup draft.<div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br><div><br><div><div>On Apr 20, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Justin Hutchings wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I think expanding the language in the PWG Raster spec would be very appropriate. Can you take that action item? I’m happy to review/work with you on text for the section.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I agree that the IPP everywhere spec should focus on IPP implementations and talking about legacy buses muddies the water.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet@apple.com]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:45 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Justin Hutchings<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ipp@pwg.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [IPP] PWG Raster intent<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Apr 19, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Justin Hutchings wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Michael,</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I absolutely agree with your point that vendors have their own PDLs today for legacy devices and that it’s unlikely that existing devices will be retrofit. But if vendors begin to transition into IPP and PWG raster, they may choose to reduce their investments in legacy PDLs in order to focus on new technologies. I believe there are some logical conclusions you can draw from this:</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If a vendor adopts IPP Everywhere and PWG raster with it, then what are the odds they will continue to consume legacy PDLs? The odds of this are low for cost constrained devices such as inkjets. Consuming multiple PDLs requires maintaining separate driver and firmware code bases and becomes prohibitively expensive quickly.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Agreed.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If a vendor chooses to only adopt PWG raster as a PDL, but still wishes to target buses that lack an intent protocol, then they will have to create a proprietary intent language.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-left: 1in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">a.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Though smart buses certainly have advantages, not all clients will implement these buses at the same time and some legacy clients may never be updated. There could be many years where vendors are forced to maintain parallel paths in order to reach all clients they wish to target.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">PWG Raster *is* based on CUPS Raster, so there is ample room for job ticket information in the page header. We don't use it for IPP Everywhere because it is based on the PostScript page device dictionary, but it has been used successfully for years in CUPS and in some printers to support embedded job ticket information.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">3.</span><span style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Therefore, we can expect that during this transitional period, there could be additional cost/pain for vendors that wish to participate in this space. We can mitigate this by being prescriptive about how to represent intent in a PDL stream.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I am not opposed to expanding the language in the current PWG Raster spec concerning the page header and why we choose to not use it as a source of embedded job ticket information, e.g. "the CUPS Raster page header contains many embedded job ticket attributes derived from the PostScript page device dictionary, however ..." That should provide enough hints to vendors that want to go down that road to use it for legacy stuff.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">However, I do not think it is appropriate to make implementation recommendations for interfaces/protocols/buses that are out-of-scope for IPP Everywhere, particularly when those paths do not support the PWG semantic model.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; ">__________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; ">Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>________________________________________________________________________<br>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<br></div></span>
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