attachment-0001
Hi Glen,<br><br>I think we're looking at the name of this attribute too literally.<br><br>The *function* of this attribute was strictly meant to decide<br>to do specific image processing before printing on media.<br><br>
Conflating this 'xxx-color-mode' with 'xxx-color-space' (with<br>a disjoint set of keywords and usage) wouldn't be good.<br><br>Having just read Mike's reply about 'color-entry', it may apply <br>
to scan and fax, but I don't think we should lump it with this<br>'print-color-mode'.<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br><br>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a style="color:rgb(102, 0, 204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Christmas through April:<br> 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br> 734-944-0094<br>May to Christmas:<br> PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839<br> 906-494-2434<div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline">
</div><div style="display:inline"></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Petrie, Glen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Ira, I believe the property refers to
the functional mode the printer is to use or was used to produce the output. That
is; the printer is printing in or instructed to print in a “”color
mode””. If this property was meant to represent the “state”
of the output; then for print, and later for scan and fax, it should be (have
been) called “color-space”. Then it would make more sense to have
used the prefix “image” (versus even the word “imaging”);
so we have image-color-space (the printed image, the scanned image, the fax
image – the key here it is the image and the device functionality or
device capabilities or device mode.). </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">So the device is instructed (or uses) to
have a specific</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">print-color-mode, scan-color-mode or
fax-color-mode to produce an (hard or electronic) image that has an
image-color-space</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">what about “device-color-mode”</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Cambria" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue">Glen</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Ira McDonald
[mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 19, 2011
12:49 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen; Ira McDonald<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Mitchell, Andrew (Solutions
Architect); <a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a>; Michael Sweet; <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a></span></font></p><div><div><font face="Tahoma" size="2"></font></div>
<div class="h5"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP]
"print-color-mode" or "imaging-color-mode"?</font></div></div><p></p>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
On reflection, I tend to agree with Andrew that we should<br>
(in general) use the 'imaging-' prefix for our new attributes.<br>
<br>
But I *think* we meant the new 'print-color-mode' property<br>
to refer specifically to hardcopy output (print).<br>
<br>
I don't think it fits well w/ scan (output image format) or fax.<br>
<br>
All - note that we generally *drop* the 'print-' or 'job-' or<br>
whatever prefix in the PWG Semantic Model XML Schema<br>
in order to reuse the "same" (well similar) attribute at more<br>
than one level of the system/service/job/document hierarchy.<br>
<br>
Pete - please chime in with your opinion here.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br clear="all">
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><font color="#6600cc"><span style="color:#6600CC">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></font></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Christmas through April:<br>
579 Park Place
Saline, MI
48176<br>
<a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>
May to Christmas:<br>
PO Box 221
Grand Marais, MI 49839<br>
<a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Petrie, Glen <<a href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com" target="_blank">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">If the "color-mode" refers to the capability (setting) of the
scanner or the fax; then I vote for 1. below to clearly denote this. An
image does not have a "color-mode"; it has a color space. Mode
implies functionality not a state.<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style="color:#888888"><br>
Glen</span></font></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>] On Behalf Of
Mitchell, Andrew (Solutions Architect)<br>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 12:00 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a>;
'Ira McDonald'; 'Michael Sweet'<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [IPP] "print-color-mode" or
"imaging-color-mode"?<br>
<br>
OK, my 2˘.<br>
<br>
We need to decide if naming a NEW attribute that applies to more then just
print with the print- prefix makes sense. A agree that renaming existing
attributes does not make sense, and using the print- attributes in scan (and
fax) rather then renaming them is logical. But if we are going to say attributes
that are originally defined in Scan (or Fax) start with imaging- while if they
first show up in IPP Everywhere (or some other doc like JPS3) we name them
print- that doesn't seam quite right. My preference would be either:<br>
<br>
<br>
1. Call everything that is not scan (or fax) specific print-, no
matter where it is first defined. For scan or fax specific, call them scan- and
fax-.<br>
2. Start using the imaging- prefix everywhere that the term is NOT
print specific.<br>
<br>
We are going to expand the model which is heavily rooted in print to other
services, I'd just like to have a consistent naming convention for how we move
forward. 1 seems more confusing to me since it means keeping the print- name
moving forward, and we'll have to maintain the table as to what is print
specific and what isn't, but 1 also seems more true to the roots of IPP. I
however personally vote for 2 since it clearly implies our broader scope of the
protocol moving forward.<br>
<br>
As for just dropping the print- prefix, while it works for color-mode, I think
we need to take a harder look to make sure it makes sense everywhere. Note that
I view this as simply a different way of naming option 2. If we pick option 2
we need to then pick the naming convention.<br>
<br>
OK, so that was a bit more the 2˘ worth.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
From: Tom Hastings <<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@verizon.net" target="_blank">tom.hastings@verizon.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@verizon.net" target="_blank">tom.hastings@verizon.net</a>>><br>
Reply-To: "<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a>>"
<<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a>>><br>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 18:45:45 +0000<br>
To: 'Ira McDonald' <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>>>,
'Michael Sweet' <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a>>" <<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a>>><br>
Subject: RE: [IPP] "print-color-mode" or
"imaging-color-mode"?<br>
<br>
I agree with Ira. On the other hand, one other alternative for the name
would just to drop the "print-" prefix and call it
"color-mode".<br>
<br>
Tom<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ira
McDonald<br>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 15:35<br>
To: Michael Sweet; Ira McDonald<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org" target="_blank">ipp@pwg.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [IPP] "print-color-mode" or
"imaging-color-mode"?<br>
<br>
Hi Mike,<br>
<br>
My two cents.<br>
<br>
No - let's keep the name "print-color-mode" to cohere with the<br>
zillion other print-xxx or printer-xxx attributes.<br>
<br>
In the new IPP Scanner and Fax objects lets just globally apply<br>
most/many existing IPP Printer attributes in big table(s) with<br>
a rationale for why some attributes are not applicable to the<br>
other multifunction objects.<br>
<br>
Unless almost all Printer attributes *are* applicable, which I begin<br>
to suspect is the case (and have a short table of the exceptions).<br>
<br>
I think we should reserve use of he "imaging-" prefix for only new<br>
attributes defined first for Scanner, Fax, etc. objects for IPP<br>
Everywhere Second Edition.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br>
<br>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>><br>
Christmas through April:<br>
579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176<br>
<a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>
May to Christmas:<br>
PO Box 221
Grand Marais, MI 49839<br>
<a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Michael Sweet <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
All,<br>
<br>
If we consider scanning and printing of forms, the "bi-level"
(threshold) mode makes sense for both. Do we want to rename "print-color-mode"
to "imaging-color-mode" in anticipation of using is for other MFD
services in IPP?<br>
<br>
________________________________________________________________________<br>
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<br>
<br>
<br>
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