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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>Ira, if by chance, the prefix “print”
was meant to be a verb versus denoting the device (printer, scanner, fax) does
it really change the idea that it is still referring to the device “”color-mode””.
The prefix “imaging”, I assume, is being used verb as a verb; but
still, I believe it leads to ambiguity about the attribute while the prefix’s
scan and fax are clear and concise. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>glen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
ipp-bounces@pwg.org [mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Petrie, Glen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 19, 2011 1:06
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Ira McDonald<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> ipp@pwg.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [IPP]
"print-color-mode" or "imaging-color-mode"?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>Ira, I believe the property refers to
the functional mode the printer is to use or was used to produce the output.
That is; the printer is printing in or instructed to print in a
“”color mode””. If this property was meant
to represent the “state” of the output; then for print, and later
for scan and fax, it should be (have been) called “color-space”.
Then it would make more sense to have used the prefix
“image” (versus even the word “imaging”); so we have
image-color-space (the printed image, the scanned image, the fax image –
the key here it is the image and the device functionality or device
capabilities or device mode.). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>So the device is instructed (or uses) to
have a specific<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>print-color-mode, scan-color-mode or fax-color-mode
to produce an (hard or electronic) image that has an image-color-space<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>what about
“device-color-mode”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>Glen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Ira McDonald
[mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 19, 2011
12:49 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Petrie, Glen; Ira McDonald<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Mitchell, Andrew (Solutions
Architect); tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu; Michael Sweet; ipp@pwg.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [IPP]
"print-color-mode" or "imaging-color-mode"?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi,<br>
<br>
On reflection, I tend to agree with Andrew that we should<br>
(in general) use the 'imaging-' prefix for our new attributes.<br>
<br>
But I *think* we meant the new 'print-color-mode' property<br>
to refer specifically to hardcopy output (print).<br>
<br>
I don't think it fits well w/ scan (output image format) or fax.<br>
<br>
All - note that we generally *drop* the 'print-' or 'job-' or<br>
whatever prefix in the PWG Semantic Model XML Schema<br>
in order to reuse the "same" (well similar) attribute at more<br>
than one level of the system/service/job/document hierarchy.<br>
<br>
Pete - please chime in with your opinion here.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br clear=all>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><font
color="#6600cc"><span style='color:#6600CC'>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></font></a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>
Christmas through April:<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">579 Park Place</st1:Street>
<st1:City w:st="on">Saline</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">48176</st1:PostalCode></st1:address><br>
734-944-0094<br>
May to Christmas:<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street> 221</st1:address>
Grand <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Marais</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49839</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
906-494-2434<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Petrie, Glen <<a
href="mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com">glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>If the "color-mode" refers to the capability (setting) of the
scanner or the fax; then I vote for 1. below to clearly denote this. An
image does not have a "color-mode"; it has a color space. Mode
implies functionality not a state.<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style='color:#888888'><br>
Glen</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>] On Behalf Of
Mitchell, Andrew (Solutions Architect)<br>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 12:00 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a>;
'Ira McDonald'; 'Michael Sweet'<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [IPP] "print-color-mode" or "imaging-color-mode"?<br>
<br>
OK, my 2¢.<br>
<br>
We need to decide if naming a NEW attribute that applies to more then just
print with the print- prefix makes sense. A agree that renaming existing
attributes does not make sense, and using the print- attributes in scan (and
fax) rather then renaming them is logical. But if we are going to say
attributes that are originally defined in Scan (or Fax) start with imaging-
while if they first show up in IPP Everywhere (or some other doc like JPS3) we
name them print- that doesn't seam quite right. My preference would be either:<br>
<br>
<br>
1. Call everything that is not scan (or fax) specific print-, no
matter where it is first defined. For scan or fax specific, call them scan- and
fax-.<br>
2. Start using the imaging- prefix everywhere that the term is NOT
print specific.<br>
<br>
We are going to expand the model which is heavily rooted in print to other
services, I'd just like to have a consistent naming convention for how we move
forward. 1 seems more confusing to me since it means keeping the print- name
moving forward, and we'll have to maintain the table as to what is print
specific and what isn't, but 1 also seems more true to the roots of IPP. I
however personally vote for 2 since it clearly implies our broader scope of the
protocol moving forward.<br>
<br>
As for just dropping the print- prefix, while it works for color-mode, I think
we need to take a harder look to make sure it makes sense everywhere. Note that
I view this as simply a different way of naming option 2. If we pick option 2
we need to then pick the naming convention.<br>
<br>
OK, so that was a bit more the 2¢ worth.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
From: Tom Hastings <<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@verizon.net">tom.hastings@verizon.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:tom.hastings@verizon.net">tom.hastings@verizon.net</a>>><br>
Reply-To: "<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a>>"
<<a href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu">tom.hastings@alum.mit.edu</a>>><br>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 18:45:45 +0000<br>
To: 'Ira McDonald' <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>>>,
'Michael Sweet' <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com">msweet@apple.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:msweet@apple.com">msweet@apple.com</a>>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a>>" <<a
href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a>>><br>
Subject: RE: [IPP] "print-color-mode" or
"imaging-color-mode"?<br>
<br>
I agree with Ira. On the other hand, one other alternative for the name
would just to drop the "print-" prefix and call it
"color-mode".<br>
<br>
Tom<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:ipp-bounces@pwg.org">ipp-bounces@pwg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ira
McDonald<br>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 15:35<br>
To: Michael Sweet; Ira McDonald<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:ipp@pwg.org">ipp@pwg.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [IPP] "print-color-mode" or
"imaging-color-mode"?<br>
<br>
Hi Mike,<br>
<br>
My two cents.<br>
<br>
No - let's keep the name "print-color-mode" to cohere with the<br>
zillion other print-xxx or printer-xxx attributes.<br>
<br>
In the new IPP Scanner and Fax objects lets just globally apply<br>
most/many existing IPP Printer attributes in big table(s) with<br>
a rationale for why some attributes are not applicable to the<br>
other multifunction objects.<br>
<br>
Unless almost all Printer attributes *are* applicable, which I begin<br>
to suspect is the case (and have a short table of the exceptions).<br>
<br>
I think we should reserve use of he "imaging-" prefix for only new<br>
attributes defined first for Scanner, Fax, etc. objects for IPP<br>
Everywhere Second Edition.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Ira<br>
<br>
<br>
Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>
Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>
Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>
Co-Chair - TCG Hardcopy WG<br>
IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>
Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>><br>
Christmas through April:<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">579 Park Place</st1:Street> <st1:City
w:st="on">Saline</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">48176</st1:PostalCode></st1:address><br>
<a href="tel:734-944-0094" value="+17349440094">734-944-0094</a><br>
May to Christmas:<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street> 221</st1:address>
Grand <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Marais</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MI</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49839</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
<a href="tel:906-494-2434" value="+19064942434">906-494-2434</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Michael Sweet <<a
href="mailto:msweet@apple.com">msweet@apple.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:msweet@apple.com">msweet@apple.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
All,<br>
<br>
If we consider scanning and printing of forms, the "bi-level"
(threshold) mode makes sense for both. Do we want to rename
"print-color-mode" to "imaging-color-mode" in anticipation
of using is for other MFD services in IPP?<br>
<br>
________________________________________________________________________<br>
Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<br>
<br>
<br>
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