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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>An interesting thread… Brian’s two options clearly point to possible increased IDS/PWG involvement. I think there is no question that option 1 should be continued and perhaps enhanced by establishing the IDS as agreed upon venue for discussing and perhaps documenting issues. As to option 2, the IDS could document issues, suggestions and prospective solutions as White Papers or Technical Briefs, and could seek consensus among the participants as to the content of such documents. Such documents could then be sent on to the CCUF, NIAP TRRT or wherever as suggestions. Or, they could be converted to Best Practices documents with full review by the IDS participants and then passed up to the PWG for rubber stamping or rejection; but it is unclear what purpose that would serve.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Maybe there is something to be considered for the next Process document? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">Ira McDonald</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:43 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:Alan.Sukert@xerox.com">Sukert, Alan</a>; <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">Ira McDonald</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:ids@pwg.org">ids@pwg.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [IDS] 08/24/16 F2F Meeting Minutes</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Hi Alan,</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>No - within a WG, there can be both straw polls and verbal (or email) calls<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>for consensus - normally ALL participants can express their opinions and<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>those should be honored (just as non-PWG-members can send responses<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>to a PWG Last Call and we treat those as just as important as responses<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>from members).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I think we're meeting in the middle here.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>- Ira<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style='color:#3333FF'>http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6600CC'>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Jan-April: 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 734-944-0094<br>May-Dec: PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 906-494-2434<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Sukert, Alan <<a href="mailto:Alan.Sukert@xerox.com" target="_blank">Alan.Sukert@xerox.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Ira –</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Do these by-laws apply to votes within a working group? We can always just ask for consensus on issues within IDS – that’s not any type of formal vote in my view. Anyway, let’s at least explore the issue and see where it might lead.</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Alan</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Ira McDonald [mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 30, 2016 6:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> Sukert, Alan <<a href="mailto:Alan.Sukert@xerox.com" target="_blank">Alan.Sukert@xerox.com</a>>; Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Brian Smithson <<a href="mailto:bsmithson@ricohsv.com" target="_blank">bsmithson@ricohsv.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:ids@pwg.org" target="_blank">ids@pwg.org</a>; Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>>; Michael Sweet (<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>) (<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>) <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [IDS] 08/24/16 F2F Meeting Minutes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi Alan and Brian,</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>This is all interesting - thanks.</p></div><p class=MsoNormal>The tricky aspect about #2 is giving non-PWG members a vote. Can't</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>be done under IEEE-ISTO and PWG by-laws.</p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>- Ira</p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> </p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style='color:#3333FF'>http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6600CC'>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Jan-April: 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>May-Dec: PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> </p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Sukert, Alan <<a href="mailto:Alan.Sukert@xerox.com" target="_blank">Alan.Sukert@xerox.com</a>> wrote:</p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Brian / Smith –</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’d like to put Brian’s suggestion (especially #2) as a topic for a future PWG SC Meeting. If my memory is correct the next SC Meeting is scheduled for Sept 8<sup>th</sup> but I will be on vacation that day. Can we put this on the agenda for the following SC Meeting which I guess would be Sep 22<sup>nd</sup>?</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Alan</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Brian Smithson [mailto:<a href="mailto:bsmithson@ricohsv.com" target="_blank">bsmithson@ricohsv.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 30, 2016 2:28 PM<br><b>To:</b> Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>>; Sukert, Alan <<a href="mailto:Alan.Sukert@xerox.com" target="_blank">Alan.Sukert@xerox.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ids@pwg.org" target="_blank">ids@pwg.org</a>; Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect) <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>>; Michael Sweet (<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>) (<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>) <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [IDS] 08/24/16 F2F Meeting Minutes</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> </p><p>Hi Ira,</p><div><div><p>The problem isn't copyright (as it was with IEEE-SA and the 2600.n series). The problem is recognition of the PP. NIAP and Japan recognize HCD PP v1.0, and sort of by proxy the other four eyes and maybe Germany, Sweden, and others, might go along with it. But Korea has a problem with it because it is too FIPS-validation-specific and doesn't accommodate other national crypto algos and validation processes. 2600.1/2600.2 require data protection that pretty much can only be satisfied by crypto, but doesn't specify method or testing, so Korea can apply it using their national standards.</p><p>Unfortunately, publishing HCD PP v1.0 as a PWG standard won't help Korea, and I don't think it would go very far to make it seem more "international". </p><p>Publishing an HCD PP v1.1 to allow Korean and other crypto standards as an optional addition to the FIPSy requirements isn't a bad idea, but I'm pretty sure that NIAP wouldn't recognize it because they don't recognize the other standard's assurance activities (or maybe even the algos). Korea would still need to conform to two PPs (v1.0 for NIAP, v1.1 for ITSCC) but at least they'd be closer cousins. It would just be for Korea, and honestly, it would be better if ITSCC and Samsung got together and did it without the PWG.</p><p class=MsoNormal>I'd still like to keep exploring how the PWG and the IDS group can have a role in PP development and maintenance. I think of two levels of participation:</p><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Just the IDS group, for mostly ad hoc purposes, mostly of concern to vendors (not the broader CC community of labs, consultants, nations, etc.). We've been doing this already, but there may be more specific or proactive ways we could do it in the future. I don't have any particular ideas, but it just seems like it could be useful. It could include publication of PWG documents related to the PP. Whitepapers? Amicus briefs? :-)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>The PWG and IDS group could get more deeply involved if it hosted an interpretations and maintenance function for the HCD PP, or even further if the PWG hosted the MFP Technical Community. Presently, the interpretations and maintenance function is performed by NIAP's TRRT, and the MFP TC is hosted by the CCUF on OnlyOffice. But you never know. I bring this up because to properly serve either of those functions, the PWG would need to accommodate non-vendor participants on a fairly equal footing, and those participants probably wouldn't want to (or be able to) pay a membership fee. I know that "anyone can participate", but in this case the freebies would fully participate in decision-making on PP (not PWG) issues.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p>Level 2 is a big can of worms, as is PP production. But I think we should consider some kind of ongoing participation at level 1, at least as a convenient F2F meetup but better yet as an industry voice.</p><p>- Brian</p><p class=MsoNormal> </p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 8/30/2016 10:25 AM, Ira McDonald wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi Alan,</p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Reading the HCD PP slides and the IDS F2F minutes, I encountered</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>the idea of the PWG adopting and publishing the HCD PP v1.</p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Although I can find no claim of copyright in the actual HCD PP, I guess</p></div><p class=MsoNormal>that NIAP and IPA claim the copyright. If so, the PWG can't consider</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>standardizing this document.</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Brian and Alan - do you know the copyright status?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>- Ira</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br>Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG Internet Printing Protocol WG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank"><span style='color:#3333FF'>http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</span></a><br><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6600CC'>http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</span></a><br>mailto: <a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br>Jan-April: 579 Park Place Saline, MI 48176 <a href="tel:734-944-0094" target="_blank">734-944-0094</a><br>May-Dec: PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 <a href="tel:906-494-2434" target="_blank">906-494-2434</a></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> </p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Sukert, Alan <<a href="mailto:Alan.Sukert@xerox.com" target="_blank">Alan.Sukert@xerox.com</a>> wrote:</p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Updated the Subject Line to the correct date</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Sukert, Alan <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 29, 2016 11:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> '<a href="mailto:ids@pwg.org" target="_blank">ids@pwg.org</a>' <<a href="mailto:ids@pwg.org" target="_blank">ids@pwg.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> 'Kennedy, Smith (Wireless Architect)' <<a href="mailto:smith.kennedy@hp.com" target="_blank">smith.kennedy@hp.com</a>>; Ira McDonald (<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>) <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>>; Michael Sweet (<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>) (<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>) <<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>>; Brian Smithson <<a href="mailto:bsmithson@ricohsv.com" target="_blank">bsmithson@ricohsv.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [IDS] 11/03/15 F2F Meeting Minutes</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> </p><p class=MsoNormal>The minutes from the August 24, 2016 PWG IDS Face-to-Face Meeting have been posted on the PWG IDS FTP site and are available at <a href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ids/minutes/ids-f2f-minutes-20160824.pdf" target="_blank">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ids/minutes/ids-f2f-minutes-20160824.pdf</a>. Unfortunately I don’t have the email addresses to many of the attendees at the meeting, so if you can forward this note to the appropriate persons that would be very helpful.</p><p class=MsoNormal> </p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Alan Sukert</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Product Security Specialist</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Xerox Global Technology Delivery Group Strategy, Quality and Customer Experience</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#00B050'>Xerox Certified Green Belt</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:Alan.Sukert@xerox.com%7C" target="_blank">Alan.Sukert@xerox.com|</a> tel <a href="tel:585.427.1413" target="_blank">585.427.1413</a> or 8*707-1413</span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>MS 0111-03A | 800 Phillips Road | Webster, NY 14580</span></p><p class=MsoNormal>“The right angle from which to approach a problem is a try-angle”</p><p class=MsoNormal> </p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal> </p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> </p><pre>-- </pre><pre>Regards,</pre><pre>Brian Smithson</pre><pre>CISSP, CISA, PMP, CSM</pre><pre>Senior Security Architect</pre><pre>Global Solutions Engineering</pre><pre>Solutions Development Center</pre><pre>Ricoh Americas</pre><pre>675 Campbell Technology Pkwy., Suite 200, Campbell CA, 95008</pre><pre><a href="tel:%28408%29610-3113" target="_blank">(408)610-3113</a></pre></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal> </p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>