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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Michael,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I know that I, in my text, occasionally have confused the terms Service and System. Also, as you have indicated, my reference to current Client-Service operations is confusing. But I am unclear on what your objection is. I have not suggested that the Proxy request either system elements (aside from an identification of supported services) or service elements from the Cloud (although one could argue that some Clou Ststus information may be useful at the Proxy/device).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So let me outline why I feel that both System Element Update and Service Element Update are necessary both for registration and update. First, it was my understanding that, although we talk about Device registration, since the owner may limit what services and what elements of each service are to be made accessible, it is actually Services that are registered (although certain device/system elements must also be communicated.) Second, I sought to follow precedent, and make Proxy initiated messages correspond to responses from appropriate Client initiated messages. So, for example, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> A tangential discussion! The GetSystemElements operation may need some clarification from the Semantic Model Group. In </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>System Object and System Control Service Semantics, <a name="_Ref307041905"></a><a name="_Toc317245339">GetSystemElements</a> can refer to elements directly under the System Element: SystemConfiguration, SystemDescription, and SystemStatus (and possible Services). This was my intent with Update System Elements. However, at least my reading of the Schema Graphics, suggests that the operation could request elements of specific services. I would request that the SM group clarify this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Back to main discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The Update System Elements is necessary to inform the Cloud System at least of </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>SystemDescription and SystemStatus. One can argue whether System Configuration is significant at this point since I believe we agreed that Service Configuration is the determining factor in what is accessible. By the way, when the Get System Elements operation is clarified in SM, it may include the ability to list Services, in which case the Identify Services operation is unnecessary.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We have already established that Update Service is necessary to provide information on Service </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Capabilities, Service Configuration, Service Description and Service Status. On Service registration, this operation can reasonably be used to restrict what elements within these element groups are not accessible to the Cloud Service by not including them.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I would argue that the Proxy must provide some Service elements as well as some System (i.e. device) elements during registration. How else would an owner limit service capabilities that are made accessible to the Cloud Service?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I find the need for </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Set Service Device, Update Service Device State and Get Service Device Elements, or at least their names, confusing. Do these refer to a Service or a Device (System). I realize (at least to me) there are semantic differences between print oriented IPP and the semantic model. Update Service Elements , which includes both </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Service Description (read-write) and Service Status (read-only) elements would seem to be sufficient for informing the Cloud Imaging Service of Device information. Update Service Elements would do likewise for the Service. Since Service (and System) Status includes all of the counters, metric information is also as accessible as the Proxy which to make it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Bill Wagner</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet@apple.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 22, 2013 8:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> William A Wagner<br><b>Cc:</b> cloud@pwg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cloud] Minutes posted from today's Cloud Imaging WG conference call<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Bill,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2013-07-19, at 4:29 PM, William A Wagner <<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>As I generate a Registration section for the Cloud Imaging Model, I would like to verify my understanding of the decisions made at Monday's meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>1.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>The Device Owner, operating through the Cloud Imaging Device Proxy that provides the cloud interface for the device, registers the device and the device services he wishes to make available to the Cloud Imaging System. He may desire to block access to specific Device elements and Service elements. In response to information provided by the Device owner to the Proxy:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>a.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>The proxy provides Device registration information with an initial Update System Elements message to the Cloud System Control Service. This message provides information on all System Elements of the Device that are to be made known to the Cloud Imaging System. It corresponds to a response to a current Get System Elements message with all elements identified.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>b.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>The Proxy identifies the Device Services that are to be accessible to the Cloud Imaging System by sending an Identify Services message to the Cloud System Control Service. This corresponds to a response to a current List Services operation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>c.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>The proxy identifies the elements of each Device Imaging Service that are to be made available to the corresponding Cloud Imaging Service by sending an initial Update Service Elements to an Owner-identified corresponding imaging service of the target Cloud Imaging System. This corresponds to a response to a current Get Service Elements operation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm still not comfortable with the reference to Get Service Elements here. The proxy is providing Device Elements, not Service Elements. The Cloud Imaging Service "owns" its Service Elements, while the Proxy is providing the Device Elements used by that Service. Yes, the Imaging Service will reflect the Device Elements in the Service Elements reported by Get Service Elements, but that is an indirect mechanism, much as Status group elements cannot be set directly but reflect the state of a Service, Job, or Document.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Since the Proxy is registering the Imaging Device with a Cloud Imaging Service, we need to have a new operation (a la IPPSIX) called Set Service Device Elements that is used to set all of the READ-WRITE elements associated with the Imaging Device and a second operation called Update Service Device State that sets any of the READ-ONLY elements associated with the Imaging Device.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>You can choose whether to also provide a Get Service Device Elements operation in Cloud Imaging - we have it in IPPSIX to allow for collection of metrics, etc. for specific Imaging Devices.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>2.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Once Device and Service registrations are complete, the Proxy will maintain contact with the Cloud System Control Service and the registered Imaging services, updating System and Service Elements and checking Cloud Imaging Services for jobs.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Note:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>1.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>It was decided that:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>a.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Devices and Service are registered, not subunits<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>b.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Device Services can only be registered with corresponding Cloud Imaging Services<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>c.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Therefore: a Device subunit cannot be made accessible to a Cloud Imaging Service unless that subunit is configured as part of a Device Imaging Service that is registered with the Cloud Imaging Service. For example, a Cloud FaxIn Service can not use a marking engine in a Print Device unless that marking engine is also configured as part of a FaxIn service that is registered with the Cloud FaxIn Service. (This seems an unfortunate limitation to me.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>2.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>It was agreed that the Owner will want to place restrictions on:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>a.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Who can use the device, with respect to one or more of the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-1.5in'><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>i.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>User ID, possibly including results of authentication<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-1.5in'><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>ii.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Geographical or network typological origin of the user<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-1.5in'><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>iii.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Payment or credit<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.5in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-1.5in'><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>iv.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Any one of various other conditions<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>b.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>What services a user can use<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>c.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>When each user can use what services (e.g., Print and Hardcopy Fax and Email only during working hours; FaxIn, EmailIn to storage all the time)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>d.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Degree of use (e.g., max number of copies)for each particular user and Service<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>e.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Probably other conditions<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.5in'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>The owner will communicate with the Cloud Imaging System with an “access list” to identify these User rights and restrictions. This process is out of scope for the Cloud Imaging Model.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-left:.75in'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>I would appreciate confirmation or correction of this understanding.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>-----Original Message-----<br>From:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:cloud-bounces@pwg.org"><span style='color:purple'>cloud-bounces@pwg.org</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[mailto:cloud-<a href="mailto:bounces@pwg.org"><span style='color:purple'>bounces@pwg.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Michael Sweet<br>Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 4:25 PM<br>To:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org"><span style='color:purple'>cloud@pwg.org</span></a><br>Subject: [Cloud] Minutes posted from today's Cloud Imaging WG conference call<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>All,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>I have posted the minutes to today's Cloud Imaging WG conference call to:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/cloud/minutes/cloud-concall-minutes-20130715.pdf"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/cloud/minutes/cloud-concall-minutes-20130715.pdf</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Our next conference call will be on July 29, 2013 at 3pm ET.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>_________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>cloud mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'><a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>cloud@pwg.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'><a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Andale Mono","serif";color:black'>_________________________________________________________<br>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><br />--
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