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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Michael,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We agree in preferring not to have separate models for different imaging services. My comment referred to Larry’s diagram where he showed separate Cloud Service entities for the different imaging services. Also, I think that we are using the word Service in somewhat different ways: the Cloud<service>Service is an entity that provides <service>, while the <service> is a set of functions or capabilities defined by the operations accepted and acted upon. That is, I consider the Cloud<imaging>Service on a parallel to an MFD (which might perform just one Service and might not even include an input or output device).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yes, we have not defined </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Manager to the Client communication. Indeed, we (or at least I) have not fully considered the scenarios of cloud services other than printing, or even if such scenarios are reasonable. I offer the following for consideration and discussion:</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>a.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The distinguishing point of Cloud Imaging is that it uses one or more Imaging <services> provided in the Cloud, with the resulting security complications including firewalls, authentication, etc.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>b.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Print scenarios, as we have shown, involve a client (or client function) connecting to a Cloud Print Server. Since Print Servers can communicate with Print Servers, it could also be a Print Server communication with a Cloud Print Server. The rub comes with Print Servers communicating with end devices out of the cloud, requiring a Cloud Print Manager. Although the scenarios reflect the User being remote from the end device, this separation of User and output is not a necessary condition</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>c.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For Scan, the corresponding scenario would be that the Client connects to a Cloud Scan Server which then needs to communicate with a scanner device (or subordinate scan service) co-located with the User, using a Cloud Scan Manager. The Client specifies the destination of the Scanned image, which is where the Cloud Scan Server deposits the image. This seems a contorted path; a functional alternate may be that the User uses a local Scan Service that then communicates with a storage capability and/or Resource Service in the Cloud, but this would be Cloud storage or Resource utilization rather than Cloud Scanning. (see comment [h])<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>d.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cloud Copy would use the same path as Cloud Scan, except that an output destination includes a hardcopy device and would allow selection of printing attributes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>e.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cloud FaxIn offer complications in setting up a Cloud FaxIn service to accept faxes for a given User. The User (or administrator) will have set up the Cloud Service to print or store the received faxes. Depending upon the capabilities of the Cloud Service, there may been to be a manager for an out-of-cloud print or storage capability<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>f.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cloud FaxOut follows a path similar to Scan, with the Client contacting a Cloud Service. The Cloud Service may then rely upon end-device managers for scan or local repository access.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>g.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>EmailIn and EmailOut follow similar paths to FaxIn and FaxOut. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>h.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Transform and Resource services operate from client software in other imaging services and would need considerations of which are in-Cloud and which are not. As observed, Resource operations are not Job oriented, although what is stored for Scan, for example, are image files, not job. Still, although I think the Resource Service is an important one to have in the Cloud, it is NOT intended as a job output destination and does not even provide an appropriate Resource Type category. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In this set of scenarios, I do not see where </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Manager to the Client communication is needed?</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I think Paul’s point of getting workflow consideration active is very important. The SM so far has avoided formal workflow by allowing internal links between services and the Resource Service and Transform Service, and allowing some internal storage and transform capability within specific imaging services. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>5.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I do not understand the question “</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>how does the Client provide a destination URI that is accessible to the Manager?” My understanding is that the manager interfaces with the Service. The Service gets the destination from the Client. The Service receives the digital document from the scan device, probably though a Scan Manager. The service processes the image and directs it to storage. It is assumed that the client will identify storage accessible to the Service and to the client. The Scan Job Ticket may need some additions to address access issues. And we need to provide some way for the Manager to return the image to the Service. But if the Scan Service is in the Cloud, I do not see the Scan Manager sending the final image to the defined destination.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet@apple.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 21, 2013 8:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> William A Wagner<br><b>Cc:</b> 'larryupthegrove'; cloud@pwg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cloud] Cloud Imaging model requirement draft<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Bill,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2013-04-20, at 1:22 PM, William A Wagner <<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Larry and Michael,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I do not see either the rational or advantage in separating the Cloud Imaging Service in the model into separate Service entities. The Semantic Model is constructed on the basis of an MFD, which can support any one or more of the imaging services. I do not understand why this model does not hold equally when the path goes via a Cloud based server.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>First, I don't want to see separate models.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Second, my point is that what we have modeled thus far allows a Manager to retrieve/fetch documents submitted by a Client to the Cloud Print Service. We have not defined the reverse set of operations, namely how to get a document from the Manager to the Client.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>...</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>An overall Semantic Model document may be divided into common, document input and document output services in the discussion; that should be considered in formatting the document. But I question whether the model itself should be collapsed. With respect to defining a C</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>loud Scan/FaxIn/EmailIn service that provides storage, it is unclear why this is preferable to a Cloud Imaging Service that includes Scan, FaxIn, EmailIn and Resource functional services (as well as the other Imaging Services).</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I brought this up as a likely way forward for implementing the "document input" services since ALL of them deal with storage URIs (and not attached documents like the document output services), and since a Client's storage URI is very likely NOT going to be usable (since the Cloud Service and Manager will be unable to connect to the Client's storage URI through its firewall, assuming that the URI resolves to a routable address) we need to look at how we can deal with document storage. The logical place for that is in the Cloud Service, since both the Manager and Client are already able to access it in our model.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Andale Mono","serif";color:black'>_________________________________________________________<br>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><br />--
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