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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I suggest that the discussion remain on the list in that it is useful for many, particularly those who have not participated in the MFD group. Some of us have been indoctrinated into Pete’s model to various degrees, but I sometimes get the impression that people are agreeing with things that are proposed while having a somewhat different concept, particularly of what a job is and when it is created. Hopefully the job ticket specification can be made sufficiently complete to avoid confusion between the PWG model and others. For example, I was confused about the contention that there were multiple print job tickets associated with a given print job, although this was clarified to mean (I think) that there were multiple data objects of the data type printjobticket associated with a given print job although only one printjobticket data object (thus the stress in the text that what was being discussed was the datatype, something that Glen stated was unnecessary)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> cloud-bounces@pwg.org [mailto:cloud-bounces@pwg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Petrie, Glen<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:34 PM<br><b>To:</b> Zehler, Peter; cloud@pwg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Cloud] RE: About PWG Print Job Ticket<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>Thanks for providing your model. While I understand it; from your description, I now have an even more fundamental difference than just the Print Job Ticket.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>I would like to continue our dialog as it really helps in understand the model that you and others are using; but, if you want to take it off the mail list; that would be ok with me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>My fundamental difference is the role and responsibilities you discuss.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>I equate your “Client” with an Application and your “Print Service” with a “Print Client”! That is, the Application invokes a Print Client (think of the old Print Dialog). The Print Client, along with the Print Service capabilities (how that is obtained is another mail thread), provides the user (or maybe the application) with a set of settable print (service, printing) options for each document the user (or maybe the application) wants to print as part of the Print Job. It is the Print Client that creates the Print Job (object). The Print Client submits the Print Job to the selected Print Service. The Print Service can then reject or acceptance the Print Job Request. If accepted the Print Service put the Print Job in the Print Service’s print queue. I believe this what you refer to a “job creation”. In my model, only the Print Client can create Print Jobs and only the Print Service can execute Print Jobs; it is a simple and distinct separation of roles and responsibilities. In both the Cloud and mobile environments, this separate enables a simpler API implementation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>While I did not discuss Print Status initially, it may or may not be desirable to record job, print-service, printing status in the actual Print Job Ticket; to me, that is just recording keeping and the print status could be recorded in a number of places. To me, the questions are: Does the Application care about print status – no. Does the Print Client care about print status – no. Only the user care about print status. If the Print Job fails, the User will have to invoke a new print request once the failure has been resolved. This makes it possible (maybe desirable) for the Print Service to send status data to a completely separate and independent Print Status Service!! This atomic approach works well in Cloud and mobile where the location of the individual entities can be anywhere and in different security domains. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>Back to the question of how to use your model in/with my model. For any Print Service I create would have a binding to what I call the Print Client or I create a Print Manager that acts as your Print Service.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'>glen<u><o:p></o:p></u></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Zehler, Peter [mailto:Peter.Zehler@xerox.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:00 AM<br><b>To:</b> Petrie, Glen; cloud@pwg.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: About PWG Print Job Ticket</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Glen,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I believe some of the confusion comes from the differences in various environments on what constitutes a print job. There are many environments that model only single document jobs. For example this is what is used in Windows and Google Cloud Print. Other environment support multi-document Jobs. IPP and WS-Print support multiple document jobs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Another source of confusion seems to be where a Print Job exists. It is my understanding that the Print Job does not exist until a job creation request (e.g. CreateJob, PrintJob, PrintUri) is accepted by a Printer and a Job is created based on the information in the job creation request. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>I would modify your single document job model slightly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> | Print Job Status <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Print Job => | Print Job Content (by value or reference) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> | Print Job Ticket => | Print Job Description<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> | Print Job Processing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> |Print Document Processing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job is the job object created by the Print Service and contains the job attributes and state <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Status is the set of attributes maintained by automata for the job (e.g., JobState, ImpressionsCompleted)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Content is the Document data <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where Print Job Ticket is the container element for the accepted descriptive and processing intent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Description is the Job level descriptive elements (e.g., JobName, DocumentFormatSupplied). (your Print Job Info and Job Content)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Processing is the set of Job level processing intents (e.g., JobPriority). (your Print Job Info)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Document Processing is the set of attributes applied the Print Job Content (e.g., Sides, Copies) (your Print Job Ticket). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>In a single document job submission the Client supplies the Print Job Content and optionally a Print Job Ticket in the job creation request. The Printer copies, ignores or substitutes as appropriate when creating the Print Job.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>The multiple document job model looks like<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Print Job => | Print Job Status<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> | Print Job Ticket => | Print Job Description<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> | | Print Job Processing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> | |Print Document Processing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> |Print Documents=> |Print Document=> | Print Document Status<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> | Print Document Content (by value or reference)<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> | Print Document Ticket => | Print Document Description<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'> |Print Document Processing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job is the job object created by the Print Service and contains the job attributes and state <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Status is the set of attributes maintained by automata for the job (e.g., JobState, ImpressionsCompleted)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where Print Job Ticket is the container element for the accepted descriptive and processing intent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Description is the Job level descriptive elements (e.g., JobName, DocumentFormatSupplied). (your Print Job Info and Job Content)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Processing is the set of Job level processing intents (e.g., JobPriority). (your Print Job Info)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Document Processing is the set of attributes applied the Print Document Content (e.g., Sides, Copies) (your Print Job Ticket). (Note: These values are used unless overridden at the document level)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Documents is the container object created by the Print Service for the contained Document(s) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Document is the document object created by the Print Service and contains the document attributes and state <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Document Status is the set of attributes maintained by automata for the Document (e.g., DocumentState, ImpressionsCompleted)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Document Content is the Document data <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Document Description is the Job level descriptive elements (e.g., JobName, DocumentFormatSupplied). (your Job Content)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Document Processing is the set of attributes applied the Print Document Content (e.g., Sides, Copies) (your Print Job Ticket). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>In a multiple document job submission the Client optionally supplies a Print Job Ticket on the job creation request. The Print Document Content and optionally the Print Document Ticket are supplied in the add document/uri request. The Printer copies, ignores or substitutes as appropriate when creating the Print Job or Print Document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Impact","sans-serif";color:navy'>Peter Zehler</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy'>Xerox Research Center Webster<br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Email: <a href="mailto:Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com">Peter.Zehler@Xerox.com</a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Voice: (585) 265-8755</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>FAX: (585) 265-7441</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>US Mail: Peter Zehler</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Xerox Corp.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>800 Phillips Rd.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>M/S 128-25E</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Webster NY, 14580-9701</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Petrie, Glen [mailto:glen.petrie@eitc.epson.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> cloud@pwg.org; Zehler, Peter<br><b>Subject:</b> About PWG Print Job Ticket<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>After reviewing of the later content of the Print Job Ticket specification, I realize what is called a Print Job Ticket in the specification is what I have always understood to mean the Print Job. And, what is called the Document Ticket is what I have always understood to mean the Print Job Ticket. For example, in JTAPI, the attribute in the specification that are associated with the Document Ticket are those associated in JTAPI with a Print Job Ticket.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Perhaps you can provide me a reference for a Print Job.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>My understanding is that a Client submits a Print Job to a Print Service. A Print Job consists of a Print Job Ticket and Print Job Content (Document) and Print Job Info (parts of what you call PrintJobDescription and PrintJobProcessing).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>My model <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>| Print Job Info<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Print Job => | Print Job Ticket<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>| Print Job Content<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Info is the set of attributes you have that start with ‘Job’.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Ticket is the set of attributes applied the Print Job Content; what you call DocumentTicket/Processing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Where the Print Job Content is the set of “documents” and attributes that you generally have that start with ‘Document’<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>In the specification the model is sort of like mine but the ‘labels’ are different and some elements/attributes moved around. The closet analog is<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>| Print Job Processing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Print Job Ticket => | Print Document Processing (could be Print Document Ticket)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>| Print Job Description <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Since the PWG:PJT models, object and attributes are, I assume, based on IPP-isms and naming conventions; I believe the best solution is mapping of the PWG:PJT in binding code for support of the PWG:PJT.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>So, I retracted my comments made yesterday and I will focus on bindings and/or mappings of the PWG:PJT.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'>Glen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.5in'><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Cambria","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><br>-- <br>This message has been scanned for viruses and <br>dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br>believed to be clean. <o:p></o:p></p></div><br />--
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