attachment-0001
<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Cambria;
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Cambria;
color:blue;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>A thought on things we need to address.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>Below is a discussion (most likely the
first of many) of functionality that was handled by “drivers” in
the past but must now be handled by “clients” in the new world of
driver-less printing. The cloud group may want to identify items
like this to ensure the information is correctly represented in the printer “capability”
data. Client will have to know how to format the content to achieve
the user print intent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'>glen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=blue face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> gcp-developers@googlegroups.com
[mailto:gcp-developers@googlegroups.com] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Somasundaram Meiyappan<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 12, 2011 12:47
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
gcp-developers@googlegroups.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: pwg-raster and duplex</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Paolo,<br>
<br>
My thoughts on this topic of duplexing below:<br>
<br>
1. The page-order for duplex will definitely vary from printers to printers.
Laser printers can have complex page-ordering scheme depending upon their
paper-path and also because they output face-down. Lower-end laser printers
(say, mono printers used in home or <st1:place w:st="on">SOHO</st1:place>) may
still need pages in 2-1-4-3 when duplexing. Some laser printers may need them
ordered a little more deeply although I would believe that those printers are
likely to have more memory that they may perform the page-order and rotation
themselves. Inkjet printers will mostly need pages in 1-2-3-4 as their outputs
face-up.<br>
<br>
2. Your description of the paper-path sounds correct for most consumer grade printers
that I know of. (I am not speaking for all here). In other words, a 180 degree
rotation alternating page's raster data is mostly sufficient to achieve
long-edge duplex.<br>
<br>
3. I believe that the determination of which page should be rotated depends upon
whether the printer has an output finishing unit or not. Finishing units can be
a binder, stapler, etc... If nothing is specified, I believe that the default
assumption can be that the even page needs to be rotated 180 degree for
long-edge duplex. In fact, if a printer does not have a finishing unit or if
you assume that those printers with finishing unit will use PDF, then you can
ignore some implementation options like you mentioned in your most recent
email.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This is a request, once again related to duplexing:<br>
<br>
When sending simplex jobs, more implementation options may be enabled for
printer manufacturers if you could provide the numberOfPages information
especially when printing last-page-first especially when it comes to the
printer providing an option to print all jobs duplex. Many laser printers have
such a front-panel setting. One can imagine that this can also be done by
making a particular duplex option sticky using the /update command. But, there
may be periods where a printer has been off-the-internet for a while during
which several new jobs have been submitted (and their print ticket confirmed)
after which the user enables the 'Print all jobs in Duplex' option in the
control panel. Without numberOfPages support, when the printer gets back onto
the internet and expects that the new options will be in-effect, the user would
see that print-jobs that have been queued before the change still print simplex
because the queued jobs probably make use of the older default
values/capabilities. This numberOfPages (esp when printing last-page-first) can
be used to determine if a dummy pass through duplex is required for before
contents of page N in an N page source document (even if it is a HTML) is
printed with N mod 2 ==1. If you can provide this information for all document
types when the /fetch interfaces returns info about all jobs, it will be ideal.<br>
<br>
Thanks and Regards,<br>
Somasundaram.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Paolo Ferraris <<a
href="mailto:paolof@google.com">paolof@google.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Printer manufacturers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> in addition to the questions below, we are thinking about
never sending pages in PWG-raster in reverse order when duplex is enabled (the
ticket will never have reverse order set.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Reverse printing for duplex doesn't seem to me as important as for
nonduplex printing. If you see it as a necessary feature let me know, and also
please tell me <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>how the page order should be: in case of 4 pages, should I send them in
order 4-3-2-1 or 3-4-1-2 ?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Paolo<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Paolo Ferraris <<a
href="mailto:paolof@google.com" target="_blank">paolof@google.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Printer manufacturers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>can I assume the following about PWG-raster printers with duplexers
that need to print on the fly (i.e.: not enough memory to rotate images):<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>- duplexing unit flips sheets of paper around the feeding edge of the
paper (i.e., for papers fed from the short edge, the top becomes bottom and
vice versa), and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>- after page flipping, the paper is moved inside the printer for back
page printing in the same direction as for the front page. (As a result, the
back page starts printing in the corner that is not the same corner of the
front page).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>If I don't hear back, I'll just assume them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Paolo<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Paolo Ferraris <<a
href="mailto:paolof@google.com" target="_blank">paolof@google.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Mike,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Michael Sweet <<a
href="mailto:michael.r.sweet@gmail.com" target="_blank">michael.r.sweet@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='word-wrap:break-word'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Jul 8, 2011, at 2:47 AM, Paolo Ferraris wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hello gcp-developers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> I'm implementing some modifications to the pwg-raster page
generation based on ticket capabilities. Pages will not only be generated based
on dpi and page size, but also on document orientation, duplexing and page
ordering (from last to first rather than from first to last). XPS support will
be first, and it will be followed by PPD.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Regarding duplexing, I haven't start looking at PPD specifications yet
but we will only support what XPS allows. That is, we will possibly rotate even
pages by 180 degrees based on document orientation and whether the page is
reverted top-down or left-right by the duplexing unit. We will not support, for
instance, anything similar to the options "rotated" and
"flipped" of attribute pwg-raster-back-side defined in the PWG-raster
document. (See <a
href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippraster10-20110327.pdf"
target="_blank">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/ipp/wd/wd-ippraster10-20110327.pdf</a>
section 5.1 and figure 3.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Um, I'm pretty sure "rotated" is what XPS allows, and
"flip" is generally what a printer uses. There is a reason why PWG
Raster (and CUPS Raster) support multiple back-side coordinate systems...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>You are actually right about XPS. I don't know the exact definition of
two-sided-short-edge/long-edge in the PWG raster document (can you point me at
it?), but if it is the same as for the duplexing option in XPS then XPS
printing seems to correspond to the "rotated" option in PWG-raster
(instead of manual-tumble as I incorrectly thought that.) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>About real printers, it seems to me that if a printer needs
"flipped" if the page is fed back to the printer in the opposite
direction. (Say, in a "traditional" vertical feed, the front page is
fed top-down, but, after rotation, the paper is fed bottom-up.) If the paper is
fed in the same direction the printing seems to need to be printed rotated. Am
I missing anything?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<br />--
<br />This message has been scanned for viruses and
<br />dangerous content by
<a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is
<br />believed to be clean.
</body>
</html>