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<html><body> <DIV>Ira,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I provided my observations for information only. But this brings up the significant question of at what point do we sacrifice too much of the managability capability to deal with the cumbersomeness of the CIM route. And a related question of whether there is sufficient concern in the industry of how this effort, which is conceived as the basis for Web Services management, comes out to either help in the effort or put some pressure on DMTF. Four votes our of 2xx from DMTF does not indicate any interest there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bill Wagner</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> <BR> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1589" name=GENERATOR> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Hi Bill,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>My point is that this status property, when added to our CIM_Printer</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>(from prtGeneralEntry), will probably generate a lot of discussion</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>and pushback from CIM Core, but what-the-heck, we can spare a</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>decade to model Print Device, right?  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>And Rick's suggesting that we'</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>ll probably have to move this boolean </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>out to a new (otherwise empty) </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>class CIM_PrintConsole that contains </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>the state property and </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>accepts two methods (enable and disable).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=551223900-24042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com</FONT> </P> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 23, 2007 3:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard_Landau@Dell.com; McDonald, Ira; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> There is one podssible candidate for EnabledLogicalElement<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Some general comments.</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>1.  I am aware of printers that support  write for both prtGeneralReset and prtConsoleDisable. Granted that these are dangerous from a security viewpoint, there are many MIB writeable objects that are so. SNMP security must be provided by SNMPv3, shutting off SNMP (or just SNMP write)  or by other methods.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. I thought that we had agreed that  CIM printing MOFs would be read only, with CIM operations handling the write functionality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bill Wagner</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <Richard_Landau@Dell.com> <BR> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3059" name=GENERATOR> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Subject still ConsoleDisable.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>BTW, I know that the DEC PostScript/SNMP printers of my generation, that is, until early 2000, did implement this feature.  Don't know if customers used it.  But that is not the point.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Believe it or not, the equivalent of ConsoleDisable for desktop monitors is among the most-requested features from large businesses these days.  They call it ConsoleLock, but it's the same thing: don't let the user futz with the buttons.  Yes, it does require that one re-enable the console for a service call, but apparently it also makes service calls less frequent.  Go figure.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In any case, if there is a secure method to invoke this, it is a useful and desirable feature, and I think we should carry it forward in future standards.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=630310120-23042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>rick</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 20, 2007 12:25<BR><B>To:</B> Landau, Richard; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> There is one podssible candidate for EnabledLogicalElement<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Hi Rick,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Well, hypothetical capability today in Printer MIB...  The conformance</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>macro allows 'read-only'.  And I have personally never encountered</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>a printer that allows remote disable of the console (think about this - it</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>breaks service scenarios entirely).  This is an edge condition.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Now, remote reset of the printer actually does make sense (via a CIM</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>operation of course).  Although, again I don't think there are current</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>printers that allow remote reset via SNMP (for security reasons).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=130062118-20042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com</FONT> </P> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Richard_Landau@Dell.com [mailto:Richard_Landau@Dell.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 19, 2007 4:08 PM<BR><B>To:</B> McDonald, Ira; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> There is one podssible candidate for EnabledLogicalElement<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=642144020-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I was not proposing any analogous property at all, but an empty class with only the method to change the state.  What I intend is having a class to represent the function of the property we don't like.  And the class has a RequestStateChange() method to effect the function.  And the enabled-disabled state of the class shows up in the existing EnabledState property.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=642144020-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=642144020-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>This is the *last* thing I would do to the new model, after adding all the other stuff as read-only as we agreed.  Or rather, the first thing of the new writable model, the pipe cleaner for putting write functions on various properties.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=642144020-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=642144020-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We have the capability (pardon the expression) today, at least in the model if not in many implementations, to disable console input.  If we can model the capability in another way that does not expose a dangerous writable property, that seems like a good thing.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=642144020-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=642144020-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>rick</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 19, 2007 15:39<BR><B>To:</B> Landau, Richard; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> There is one podssible candidate for EnabledLogicalElement<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>My two cents - NO - no writable properties at all - no state changing methods</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>defined </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>in any Phase 2 modelling activity - </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>drop this property entirely or show </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>it as a read-only boolean </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>in CIM_Printer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=865323821-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com</FONT> </P> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Richard_Landau@Dell.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:51 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Richard_Landau@Dell.com; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM> There is one podssible candidate for EnabledLogicalElement<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=511584618-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Actually, I would propose calling the class ConsoleButtons or ConsoleInput.  The existing function does not disable the lights or text display, only input from the buttons.  </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=511584618-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=511584618-19042007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>rick</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Richard_Landau@Dell.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 19, 2007 13:42<BR><B>To:</B> wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> WIMS> CIM> There is one possible candidate for EnabledLogicalElement<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Console.  Not ConsoleLights or ConsoleDisplayBuffer, but a class with no properties other than state so that it can be enabled and disabled.  In the voting spreadsheet from eons ago, we all voted prtGeneralConsoleDisable as priority A.  And there is a comment on it that says, "must be implemented as CIM state accessible by RequestStateChange() method."  Who would have guessed that we had such foresight way back then.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Proposal: When we get to it, we can use this as a pipe cleaner for CIM modeling of this writable property.  I think it results in an otherwise empty class derived directly from EnabledLogicalElement.  No new properties, just the state properties and RequestStateChange() method inherited from the parent.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Comments?  </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>rick</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>----------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard_Landau(at)dell(dot)com, Stds & System Mgt Architecture, CTO Office</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>+1-512-728-9023, One Dell Way, RR5-3, MS RR5-09, Round Rock, TX 78682</FONT> </P><BR> <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.4/768 - Release Date: 4/19/2007 5:32 AM<BR></FONT></P><BR> <P><FONT size=2>--<BR>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.5/769 - Release Date: 4/19/2007 5:56 PM<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><FONT size=2>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.9/773 - Release Date: 4/22/2007 8:18 PM<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>