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I thought it sounded familiar... that we had gone through these media attributes before. Indeed, it was in 5100.3 where we in the media "collection". I've never liked  the use of collection but the media semantics should be useful (reusable in some sense in an updated Counter Spec). ---------------------------------------------- Harry Lewis IBM STSM Chairman - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group http://www.pwg.org IBM Printing Systems http://www.ibm.com/printers 303-924-5337 ---------------------------------------------- <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=40%>"Stuart Rowley" <Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com> Sent by: owner-wims@pwg.org 07/10/2006 09:21 AM <td width=59%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>To</div> <td>"McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com>, <wamwagner@comcast.net> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td><wims@pwg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> Bill and Ira,   A unique media key seems necessary to me. I have looked at 5100.3, and it seems it would take careful study for me to understand the implementation of media key in this document. I just didn’t get it in a quick pass.   Thanks,   Stuart   Stuart Rowley Kyocera Technology Development   <div align=center> <hr></div> From: lynnewagner@comcast.net [mailto:lynnewagner@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 7:03 PM To: McDonald, Ira; 'wamwagner@comcast.net'; Stuart Rowley Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions   Hello Ira,   Yes, that sounds good. Do we have any comments from the list?   Bill Wagner   -- A. Lynne Wagner, EdD, MSN, RN Consultant, Nurse Career and Mentor Coach Phone: 978-764-3982 E-Mail: lynnewagner@comcast.net   -------------- Original message -------------- From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> Hi Bill,   The best solution would be to lead '...MediaInfo' as descriptive and add a new attribute '...MediaKey' (see PWG 5100.3) that IS unique.   This wants some consideration and discussion.   Cheers, - Ira Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839 phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com -----Original Message----- From: wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:34 PM To: McDonald, Ira; 'Stuart Rowley' Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions Ira,   Understood. That is a problem with not prototyping, although there is no guarentee that all issues will be found  when prototyping. So, pending further discoveries, perhaps we should consider an errata to the counter spec? I take it that we would add another object, with 'icMediaUsedMediaInfo' being redefined and retyped as a media qualifier and (perhaps) ''icMediaUsedMediaDescrip" being added for user infomation?   Bill Wagner   -------------- Original message -------------- From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> Hi Bill,   I agree that 'icMediaUsedMediaInfo' is overloaded with two probably incompatible uses, but it isn't the MIB that did this overloading.  This is a bug in the PWG Candidate Standard Imaging System Counters (PWG 5106.1) - see section 5.3 on the bottom of page 27.   This bug cannot be fixed in the MIB independently, without revision of the source document's element semantics.   Cheers, - Ira   Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839 phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com -----Original Message----- From: wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:36 PM To: McDonald, Ira; 'Stuart Rowley' Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: Re: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions OK. Ira, it seems that you agree with Stuart that: icMediaUsedMediaSizeName DisplayString and icMediaUsedMediaInfo SnmpAdminString both are not localized.   The former is a PWG 5101.1 defined keyword; the latter is freeform in that it is not a public-spec defined keyword, but operationally should be one of a set of strings defined for use in a particular environment or with  a particular application.   This appears to overload icMediaUsedMediaInfo as both a qualifying descriptor for media identification and as a description for human consumption.   Since the MIB is informational only (pending prototyping), and Stuart may be doing the prototyping, I would suggest that we collect the issues discovered during this effort and define an updated version of the MIB for resubmission as a candidate standard.   Bill Wagner   -------------- Original message -------------- From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> Hi Stuart,   The ASCII keyword in '...SizeName' should NOT be localized, but the equivalent elements in '...MediaInfo' ARE supposed to be localized.   But, because '...MediaInfo' in the Abstact Counter spec (PWG 5106.1) and Counter MIB is required for the key distinguishing two instances of the same size media (e.g., by color), it's highly undesirable to change the value of '...MediaInfo' when the printer locale changes -  lousy side effects for accounting applications.   Bill - I consider this a probable errata against the Counter MIB.   Cheers, - Ira Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839 phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Rowley [mailto:Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:07 PM To: McDonald, Ira Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: RE: Counter MIB questions Hi Ira,   Thanks for the quick reply.   The description for icMediaUsedMediaSizeName says:   "The media size self-describing name for this specific media, for use with remote network management scripts and GUIs, specified as a Unicode string encoded in UTF-8 (RFC 3629) in the language specified in 'icGeneralNaturalLanguage'.   ...so would this ASCII keyword be localized...?   Thanks,   Stuart <div align=center> <hr></div> From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:47 PM To: Stuart Rowley; McDonald, Ira Cc: 'wims@pwg.org' Subject: RE: Counter MIB questions   Hi Stuart,   I copied the WIMS list, so others could see my remarks and chime in.   The significance of icMediaUsedMediaSizeName being DisplayString is that it MUST be strict ASCII (it's a _keyword_ that follows the format in PWG 5101.1, not a free form name - even a custom size name has a format and MUST be strict ASCII).   icMediaUsedMediaInfo is a description that makes '...SizeName' unique for instances of different (but same size) media.  Because the IETF leaned on us hard to make all future MIB descriptive strings be internationalized, it's of type SnmpAdminString (UTF-8) and localized.   Now - nothing prevents you from making the "localized" media info in Kyocera products be of the form:     media-info = english-media-identifier ":" localized-description   So that your accounting applications use the invariant identifier and save the localized-description (if at all) in a separate database field that's informational.   Or you could cheat (I don't recommend this) and leave the value of icGeneralNaturalLanguage empty and just support all descriptive fields in US-English only (the default) - I _really_ don't recommend this approach, because it's not very customer-friendly.   Hope this helps, - Ira   Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839 phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Rowley [mailto:Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:47 PM To: McDonald, Ira Subject: Counters MIB questions Hi Ira,   I hope you had an enjoyable 4th of July weekend.   I have a couple questions about the Counters spec and MIB regarding media used.   There are 3 objects used to describe the media size and type. icMediaUsedMediaSizeName DisplayString, icMediaUsedMediaInfo SnmpAdminString, icMediaUsedMediaName SnmpAdminString   What is the significance of icMediaUsedMediaSizeName using DisplayString and the others using SnmpAdminString?   In the MIB it lists all three as being localized, but it seems only icMediaUsedMediaName should be localized. I need icMediaUsedMediaSizeName and icMediaUsedMediaInfo to be used by our accounting apps to identify the size and type for billing purposes. This would be hard to achieve using localized strings. Our apps would need to read standardized names from these two objects. Am I missing something?   Thanks,   Stuart   Stuart Rowley Network Product Mgr. Kyocera Technology Development   -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006   -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006   -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006   -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006