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<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Bill and Ira,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> A unique media key seems necessary to me. I have looked at 5100.3, and it seems it would take careful study for me to understand the implementation of media key in this document. I just didn’t get it in a quick pass.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Thanks,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Stuart<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p> Kyocera Technology Development<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: lynnewagner@comcast.net [mailto:lynnewagner@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 7:03 PM To: McDonald, Ira; 'wamwagner@comcast.net'; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName> Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Hello Ira,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Yes, that sounds good. Do we have any comments from the list?<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div id=signature> -- A. Lynne Wagner, EdD, MSN, RN Consultant, Nurse Career and Mentor Coach Phone: 978-764-3982 E-Mail: lynnewagner@comcast.net <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:2.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> <o:p></o:p> <div> Hi Bill,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The best solution would be to lead '...MediaInfo' as descriptive and<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> add a new attribute '...MediaKey' (see PWG 5100.3) that IS unique.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> This wants some consideration and discussion.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Cheers,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> - Ira<o:p></o:p> </div> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street> 221</st1:address>  Grand <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Marais</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State>  <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49839</st1:PostalCode></st1:place> phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com <o:p></o:p> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:2.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -----Original Message----- From: wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:34 PM To: McDonald, Ira; '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName>' Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: RE: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions<o:p></o:p> <div> Ira,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Understood. That is a problem with not prototyping, although there is no guarentee that all issues will be found  when prototyping. So, pending further discoveries, perhaps we should consider an errata to the counter spec? I take it that we would add another object, with 'icMediaUsedMediaInfo' being redefined and retyped as a media qualifier and (perhaps) ''icMediaUsedMediaDescrip" being added for user infomation?<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:2.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> <o:p></o:p> <div> Hi Bill,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> I agree that 'icMediaUsedMediaInfo' is overloaded with two probably<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> incompatible uses, but it isn't the MIB that did this overloading.  This<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> is a bug in the PWG Candidate Standard Imaging System Counters<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> (PWG 5106.1) - see section 5.3 on the bottom of page 27.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> This bug cannot be fixed in the MIB independently, without revision <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> of the source document's element semantics.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Cheers,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> - Ira<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street> 221</st1:address>  Grand <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Marais</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State>  <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49839</st1:PostalCode></st1:place> phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com <o:p></o:p> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:2.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -----Original Message----- From: wamwagner@comcast.net [mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:36 PM To: McDonald, Ira; '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName>' Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: Re: WIMS> RE: Counter MIB questions<o:p></o:p> <div> OK. Ira, it seems that you agree with Stuart that: <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> icMediaUsedMediaSizeName DisplayString and<o:p></o:p> icMediaUsedMediaInfo SnmpAdminString<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> both are not localized. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The former is a PWG 5101.1 defined keyword; the latter is freeform in that it is not a public-spec defined keyword, but operationally should be one of a set of strings defined for use in a particular environment or with  a particular application.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> This appears to overload icMediaUsedMediaInfo as both a qualifying descriptor for media identification and as a description for human consumption.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Since the MIB is informational only (pending prototyping), and Stuart may be doing the prototyping, I would suggest that we collect the issues discovered during this effort and define an updated version of the MIB for resubmission as a candidate standard. <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Bill Wagner<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "McDonald, Ira" <imcdonald@sharplabs.com> <o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:2.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> Hi Stuart,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The ASCII keyword in '...SizeName' should NOT be localized, <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> but the equivalent elements in '...MediaInfo' ARE supposed to <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> be localized.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> But, because '...MediaInfo' in the Abstact Counter spec (PWG <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> 5106.1) and Counter MIB is required for the key distinguishing <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> two instances of the same size media (e.g., by color), it's highly<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> undesirable to change the value of '...MediaInfo' when the printer<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> locale changes -  lousy side effects for accounting applications.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Bill - I consider this a probable errata against the Counter MIB.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Cheers,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> - Ira<o:p></o:p> </div> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</st1:Street> 221</st1:address>  Grand <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Marais</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">MI</st1:State>  <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49839</st1:PostalCode></st1:place> phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com <o:p></o:p> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:2.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -----Original Message----- From: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName> [mailto:Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:07 PM To: McDonald, Ira Cc: wims@pwg.org Subject: RE: Counter MIB questions<o:p></o:p> Hi Ira,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Thanks for the quick reply. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The description for icMediaUsedMediaSizeName says:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> "The media size self-describing name for this specific media,<o:p></o:p> for use with remote network management scripts and GUIs,<o:p></o:p> specified as a Unicode string encoded in UTF-8 (RFC 3629)<o:p></o:p> in the language specified in 'icGeneralNaturalLanguage'.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> ...so would this ASCII keyword be localized...?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Thanks,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Stuart<o:p></o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </div> From: McDonald, Ira [mailto:imcdonald@sharplabs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:47 PM To: <u1:PersonName u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</u1:PersonName></st1:PersonName>; McDonald, Ira Cc: '<u1:PersonName u2:st="on">wims@pwg.org</u1:PersonName>' Subject: RE: Counter MIB questions<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Hi Stuart,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> I copied the WIMS list, so others could see my remarks and chime in.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The significance of icMediaUsedMediaSizeName being DisplayString is<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> that it MUST be strict ASCII (it's a _keyword_ that follows the format in<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> PWG 5101.1, not a free form name - even a custom size name has a<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> format and MUST be strict ASCII).<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> icMediaUsedMediaInfo is a description that makes '...SizeName' unique for <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> instances of different (but same size) media.  Because the IETF leaned<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> on us hard to make all future MIB descriptive strings be internationalized,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> it's of type SnmpAdminString (UTF-8) and localized.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Now - nothing prevents you from making the "localized" media info in<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Kyocera products be of the form:<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>   media-info = english-media-identifier ":" localized-description<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> So that your accounting applications use the invariant identifier and<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> save the localized-description (if at all) in a separate database field<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> that's informational.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Or you could cheat (I don't recommend this) and leave the value of<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> icGeneralNaturalLanguage empty and just support all descriptive<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> fields in US-English only (the default) - I _really_ don't recommend<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> this approach, because it's not very customer-friendly.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Hope this helps,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> - Ira<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc <u1:address u2:st="on"><u1:Street u2:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">PO Box</u1:Street></st1:Street> 221</u1:address></st1:address>  Grand <u1:place u2:st="on"><u1:City u2:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Marais</u1:City></st1:City>, <u1:State u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">MI</u1:State></st1:State>  <u1:PostalCode u2:st="on"><st1:PostalCode w:st="on">49839</u1:PostalCode></u1:place></st1:PostalCode></st1:place> phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com <o:p></o:p> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:2.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> -----Original Message----- From: <u1:PersonName u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</u1:PersonName></st1:PersonName> [mailto:Stuart.Rowley@ktd-kyocera.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:47 PM To: McDonald, Ira Subject: Counters MIB questions<o:p></o:p> Hi Ira,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I hope you had an enjoyable 4th of July weekend. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I have a couple questions about the Counters spec and MIB regarding media used.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> There are 3 objects used to describe the media size and type.<o:p></o:p> icMediaUsedMediaSizeName DisplayString,<o:p></o:p> icMediaUsedMediaInfo SnmpAdminString,<o:p></o:p> icMediaUsedMediaName SnmpAdminString<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> What is the significance of icMediaUsedMediaSizeName using DisplayString and the others using SnmpAdminString?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> In the MIB it lists all three as being localized, but it seems only icMediaUsedMediaName should be localized. I need icMediaUsedMediaSizeName and icMediaUsedMediaInfo to be used by our accounting apps to identify the size and type for billing purposes. This would be hard to achieve using localized strings. Our apps would need to read standardized names from these two objects. Am I missing something?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Thanks,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Stuart<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <u1:PersonName u2:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">Stuart Rowley</st1:PersonName></u1:PersonName><o:p></o:p> Network Product Mgr.<o:p></o:p> Kyocera Technology Development<o:p></o:p> </blockquote> <o:p> </o:p> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006<o:p></o:p> </blockquote> <o:p> </o:p> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006<o:p></o:p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <o:p> </o:p> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006<o:p></o:p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <o:p> </o:p> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006<o:p></o:p> </blockquote> </div> </body> </html>