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FONT-FAMILY: Arial } LI.header200 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0in 3pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.header200 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0in 3pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } SPAN.EmailStyle31 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal } SPAN.EmailStyle32 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal } SPAN.EmailStyle33 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } OL { MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in } UL { MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Hi Rick,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>In IPP Job and Printer Set Operations (RFC 3380, September 2002), 'xxx-supported'</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>attributes are settable, because that's the ONLY way the administrator has to restrict</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>by policy the use of capabilities that are built-in by the manufacturer but should NOT</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>be used at the particular site.  That approach comes from IPP/1.0 (RFC 2566) and IPP/1.1 </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>(RFC </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>2911) - which assumed </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>the actual setting of 'xxx-supported' was done out-of-band.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>This goes all the way back to ISO DPA, where 'xxx-supported' had these same semantics</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>and behavior - they are policy attributes, NOT fixed manufacturer capability attributes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>RFC 3380 defines a new operation 'Get-Printer-Supported-Values' that allows an</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>administrator to discover the existence of a manufacturer built-in capability that has</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>been previously disabled by policy (and to restore it by setting the appropriate</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>'xxx-supported' attribute).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Hope this helps the discussion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=645142214-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com</FONT> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Richard_Landau@Dell.com [mailto:Richard_Landau@Dell.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 22, 2005 3:27 PM<BR><B>To:</B> imcdonald@sharplabs.com; cwhittle@sharplabs.com; wims@pwg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM: August 18, 2005 minutes posted<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005>Craig, </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005>Good minutes, thanks.  And I agree with all of them except the statement that "<FONT face=Helvetica size=4>xxx-supported attributes (policy administrator may restrict features available to users) should be writable."  I agree that Default, Current, Max, and Available are reasonable writable properties for setup and policy control, but I think that "Supported" is *generally* a statement of the physical (or software) capabilities of the device, as specified by the manufacturer, rather than policy, as set by the local manager.  </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005><FONT face=Helvetica size=4></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005><FONT face=Helvetica size=4>For instance, the CIM_Printer.PaperSizesSupported property contains a list of physical sizes that can pass thru the printer.  I think that list comes from the manufacturer and is not writable.  Similarly for LanguagesSupported, CharSetsSupported, NaturalLanguagesSupported, etc.  On the other side, I think that MaxSizeSupported (in Kbytes, remember) seems to be a sensible policy control.  Are there cases in the gray area?   </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005><FONT face=Helvetica size=4></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005><FONT face=Helvetica size=4>Hate to say it, but I think we will have to review these one by one, both the ones already in CIM_Printer and the ones that we will probably add from Printer MIB and IPP.  I just don't know enough about IPP to understand the distinctions in the specs.  </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Helvetica color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Helvetica color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005>In any case, I think the blanket statement that xxx-supported should be writable goes a little too far.  I might have agreed with it during the phone call.  If so, I apologize for being misleading.  </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Helvetica color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Helvetica color=#0000ff><SPAN class=728273918-22082005>rick</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR> </DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>McDonald, Ira<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 18, 2005 17:05<BR><B>To:</B> Whittle, Craig; 'wims@pwg.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: WIMS> CIM: August 18, 2005 minutes posted<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Hi Craig,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Good minutes - thanks.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>All - please look at Printer and _other_ object classes in CIM Printing.  Overall,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>a very small number of the Printer MIB and IPP attributes are presently defined</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>in CIM Printing.  This affects the size of the eventual alignment work (nearterm</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>it's smaller, longterm it's a much bigger job than I had anticipated).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=622320122-18082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>- Ira</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<BR>Blue Roof Music / High North Inc<BR>PO Box 221  Grand Marais, MI  49839<BR>phone: +1-906-494-2434<BR>email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-wims@pwg.org [mailto:owner-wims@pwg.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Whittle, Craig<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:36 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'wims@pwg.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> WIMS> CIM: August 18, 2005 minutes posted<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">All:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Minutes from the PWG-CIM <FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">A</SPAN></FONT>lignment <FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">Working Group tele</SPAN></FONT>conference call have been posted.  See <FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"><A href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/cim/minutes/cim_050818.pdf">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/cim/minutes/cim_050818.pdf</A>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Best regards, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">**CW<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>