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<html><body> <DIV>Hi Harry,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just took a few minutes out from visiting relatives. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Referring to para 5.1, SystemTotals  does not just include the WorkTotals ( as well as MediaUsed, Availability and Monitoring counts) aggregated over the supported systems, but also DataStream, Auxilary, Maintenance and Waste. (although not all counts are applicable to all services). I think this interesting feature is lost in the new diagram. At any rate, there should be text in this section that identifies these SystemTotals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The counters are, in the more general sense elements. I am not saying the the terms elements must be included in the title, although the use gets around the ambiguity in English as to whether System Counters means counter of systems or counters in systems. I suspect the original (or evolved) form of the figure titles was intended as a clarification of this . There is always the question of whether the reader is reading the spec as English or as a type of  pseudo code where structures and terms have more precise meanings. I suggest we avoid potential  English ambiguities even at the cost of elegance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bill Wagner</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- Bill, the minutes are just a cut and paste of the e-mail so you didn't miss anything. 1. Sounds like we need to do a scan of the Counter Spec for highlighted areas and figure out if there is an action item or not. 2. Not sure what you mean by "aggregation of counters at the lower level counter classes". Data/Aux/Main/Waste/Unknown are all aggregated into "Work" at the Service level and "Work" from each Service is aggregated into "WorkTotals" for the System. No? If it is not this simple and hierarchical I think we need to understand why not! 3. We tried to gain clarity by simplifying the names. So, we changed "Counter Elements per Service" to "Service Counters" and "System Totals Counter Elements" to "System Counters". Makes sense to me but I must be missing something. Would it be more accurate if we changed the title of Fig 5 to "System Totals Counters"? I must be missing the significance of the word "elements" in the title as distinct from "counters". Much appreciate your taking time to comment. I know you are supposed to be off the radar. ---------------------------------------------- Harry Lewis IBM STSM Chairman - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group http://www.pwg.org IBM Printing Systems http://www.ibm.com/printers 303-924-5337 ---------------------------------------------- <TABLE width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD width="40%">wamwagner@comcast.net 05/27/2005 10:25 AM <TD width="59%"> <TABLE width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>To</DIV> <TD>Harry Lewis/Boulder/IBM@IBMUS, wims@pwg.org <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>cc</DIV> <TD> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>Subject</DIV> <TD>Re: WIMS> WIMS Minutes - Counter spec updated</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Harry,   Sorry, I cannot read the minutes on this borrowed machine, so I may be missing some of the details of the dicussion. But:   1. Highlighted areas generally relate to last call comments related changes that have not been specificaly agreed to in context by the group.   2. I agree that my fig 5 was cluttered, but I think the revised version may be misleading in that it does not illustrate the aggegation of counters at the lower level counter clases. I suggest that someone less familiar with the spec consider whether the figure helps or hurts comprehension.   3. I also disagree with the renameing of Figure 4 and 5, in that  "Service Counters"  and "System Counters" appear to relate to counters of services or systems, which is not what the figures refer to.   Bill Wagner     -------------- Original message -------------- Based on Thursday's WIMS conference call the following updates have been included in the Counter Spec. <A href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/lcrc-wimscount10-20050526rev.doc">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/lcrc-wimscount10-20050526rev.doc</A> <A href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/lcrc-wimscount10-20050526.pdf">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/wd/lcrc-wimscount10-20050526.pdf</A> 1. Resolved previous issue on p g. 9. Impression contains both highlight color and full color... how is it counted? Answer - Full color (always count in terms of highest use). This notation added to definitions for Full Color and Highlight color. - Question - Why is full-color hyphenated but highlight-color is not? Let's have it one way or the other. - Question - Why is the definition of Highlight Color - Impressions generated that use one highlight colorant. Why not "one or more" highlight colorants? There can be a multi highlight color device. 2. Change title of Fig 3 3. Change title of Fig 4 4. Replace Fig 5 with revised diagram supplied by Jerry T. 5. Change title of Fig 5 6. Added Jerry Thrasher as author (Jerry please verify for accuracy) Still need to address some random yellow highlighting... not sure which are ar! tifacts and which require attention Per discussion, Ira is working on drafting some brief design requirements to add up front as distinct from conformance requirements. Why did we do Counters, what industry problem does it address, what are the high-level design imperatives. Some definitions are lacking sources. Ira has agreed to review definitions for proper sources. Others are invited to participate in this activity. Minutes (copy of this e-mail) posted <A href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/minutes/wims_050526.pdf">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/wims/minutes/wims_050526.pdf</A> Next WIMS teleconference Wed June 1 Noon EDT                2 Call-in US Toll-free: 1-866-365-4406 Call-in International/Toll: 1-303-248-9655 Participant Identification number: 2635888# ---------------------------------------------- Harry Lewis IBM STSM Chairman - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group http://www.pwg.org IBM Printing Systems http://www.ibm.com/printers 303-924-5337 ---------------------------------------------- </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>