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The value I see in "replacing the database structure" vs. "allowing data base information to be expressed in XML" is that the later is a given and can be done, today. But we are going to standardize this expression to make it useful. Why stop short of developing a standard, then, which can support intra-, extra-, cross-enterprise solutions? ---------------------------------------------- Harry Lewis IBM Printing Systems ---------------------------------------------- <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <td>"Wagner,William" <WWagner@NetSilicon.com> Sent by: owner-wbmm@pwg.org 03/04/2003 11:30 AM <td>                To:        "MARKLE,CATHY (HP-Boise,ex1)" <cathy_markle@hp.com>         cc:        "'Wbmm (E-mail)" <wbmm@pwg.org>         Subject:        RE: WBMM> RE: Scope and Starting Point</table> <tt>Cathy, Thanks for the explanation.  And I fully agree that WebJetAdmin could  use its server capability to accept inputs from monitored devices/services, using whatever scheme WBMM comes up with. But there are still a few points that are unclear to me. At least in all of the instances I am aware of, the purpose and level of management from outside the firewall is quite different from intra-enterprise management. Indeed, it is likely the local managers will require that remote access be limited. That is, the functional purposes of remote management point to different operational capabilities than are required for local management. Since WJA must continue to support SNMP for the existing base, why put the additional requirements associated with local management upon WBMM when the main purpose of using an XML-coded communication are for remote access? Another point which is unclear is what you mean by "replacing the MIB with XML". To me the MIB is the organized data base. You can (and probably do) express the MIB contents not only using SNMP, but also in printer-generated web pages and control panel menus. You can express MIB contents using XML. Therefore I am unsure of for what purpose the replacement of the MIB is necessary. I know that Harry wants to restructure the information to address failings in the original effort. But as worthy as that objective may be in itself, I fail to see that it is a necessary  requirement for extra-enterprise management. I will support the group consensus on this. But we need to define what we are doing and why we are doing it. If we are replacing the data base structure, then we need to be clear on why we are doing it and how it is related to the primary objective. If we are just allowing  data base information to be expressed in XML, the reason for this is more apparent. I look forward to a good discussion this afternoon. Best regards, Bill Wagner -----Original Message----- From: MARKLE,CATHY (HP-Boise,ex1) [mailto:cathy_markle@hp.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 12:27 PM To: Wagner,William; McDonald, Ira; Harry Lewis Cc: TAYLOR,BOB (HP-Vancouver,ex1); 'Wbmm (E-mail) Subject: RE: WBMM> RE: Scope and Starting Point Bill, You are correct that WebJetadmin currently uses SNMP but there is nothing stopping the use of another protocol.  Also, WebJetadmin does provide a HTTP server to provide information to a user, but if you think of WJA as a service, anybody can use the information collected in any manner required. A great internal scenario as well as external scenario would be to be able to use WebJetadmin to manage devices.  WJA is a tool that can definitely be used to go through a firewall to manage and monitor devices on a remote network.  This is where I can see one of the benefits of replacing the MIB with XML. Cathy -----Original Message----- From: Wagner,William [mailto:WWagner@NetSilicon.com] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 8:08 AM To: McDonald, Ira; Harry Lewis Cc: TAYLOR,BOB (HP-Vancouver,ex1); 'Wbmm (E-mail) Subject: RE: WBMM> RE: Scope and Starting Point Ira wrote: "..I think that Bob Taylor articulated the "internal" scenario - plugging into the existing systems management platforms, like Web Jet Admin, OpenView, Tivoli, etc." I am afraid that, at least I, would need a bit more information than this on how the internal scenario would play out.  From my undoubtedly inadequate understanding, Web Jet Admin is an application that uses SNMP ( and perhaps other methods) to poll printers, and in turn provides a HTTP server to allow users to access that data so obtained. OpenView is an SNMP-based management application. Could Bob (or someone else) indicate what they expect of the WBMM in terms of providing a "plug-in" for the popular management apps? And the replacement of SNMP is necessary? Would this "plug-in" be, in fact, an HTTP server to receive reports from registered printers? Or is it just a common semantic for communicating with the printer? Or...?? Thanks. Bill Wagner </tt>