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Hi,<br><br>Pete and I have both argued that RestartJob (terrible) and<br>ReprocessJob (a subset of ResubmitJob) shouldn't be in the <br>Semantic Model v2.0 (except for legacy Print Service).<br><br>I don't want to put them in any IPP Multifunction services.<br> <br>ResubmitJob is necessary and is accounting-friendly.<br><br>Cheers,<br>- Ira<br><br><br clear="all"><div>Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect)<br>Chair - Linux Foundation Open Printing WG<br>Secretary - IEEE-ISTO Printer Working Group<br> Co-Chair - IEEE-ISTO PWG IPP WG<br>Co-Chair - TCG Trusted Mobility Solutions WG<br>Chair - TCG Embedded Systems Hardcopy SG<br>IETF Designated Expert - IPP & Printer MIB<br>Blue Roof Music/High North Inc<br><a style="color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/blueroofmusic</a><br> <a style="color:rgb(102,0,204)" href="http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/highnorthinc</a><br>mailto:<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a><br> Winter� 579 Park Place� Saline, MI� 48176� 734-944-0094<br>Summer� PO Box 221� Grand Marais, MI 49839� 906-494-2434<br><br><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div><div style="display:inline"></div> <div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div></div> <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Michael Sweet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:msweet@apple.com" target="_blank">msweet@apple.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Bill,<div><br></div><div>Sorry, finally getting a chance to read through this and respond...</div><div><br><div><div class="im"><div>On Feb 24, 2013, at 4:50 PM, William A Wagner <<a href="mailto:wamwagner@comcast.net" target="_blank">wamwagner@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div> <blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> In pursuing the question about� the SM correlation to Get-Printer-Suppported-Values in table 1, Operations for IPP FaxOut, there appear to be several inconsistencies.<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> <span>1.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>ValidateFaxOutJob� does not exist. ValidateFaxOutJobTicket is probably intended.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Correct.</div><div><br></div><div><div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>2.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>I find no RestartFaxOutJob in either the SM FaxOut Service or general SM Model. Does the make sense? There is a ResubmitFaxOutJob.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>I believe IPP's Restart-Job was never brought into the Semantic Model because of the accounting issues is causes. �I can ban its use in FaxOut, much like we've banned Print-Job and Print-URI, if people prefer...</div> <div><br></div><div><div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>3.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>�The SM FaxOut Service does not appear to differentiate GetFaxOutJobElements from the general Get<service>JobElements, which has an important difference from IPP Get-Job-Attributes. �Unlike the IPP Get-Job-Attributes, the GetFaxOutJobElements request does not specify individual Elements. Rather, the Client requests specific groups of Elements contained within the Job. The allowed values for RequestedElements are Job Receipt, Job Status, or Job Ticket. It is not clearly stated whether the FaxOut follows the Common Semantics (presumably it must) or the IPP printer approach.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>I believe this is an artifact of the web services binding; IPP has attribute groups that can be requested (job-template, job-description, etc.) as well as individual named attributes, so I don't think this is an issue.</div> <div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>4.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>The SM FaxOut Service does not appear to differentiate GetFaxOutServiceElements from the general Get<service>ServiceElements, which has an important difference from IPP Get-Printer-Attributes. Unlike the IPP Get-Printer-Attributes, the GetFaxOutServiceElements request does not specify individual Elements. Rather, the Client requests specific groups of Elements contained within the Job. The allowed values for Requested Elements are Service Capabilities, Service Configuration, Service Description, Service Status or DefaultJob Ticket. This distinction is not clearly stated.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Same comment as for #3.</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>5.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>As follows from item 4, the correlation to� SM Get-Printer-Supported-Values is GetFaxOutServiceElements with values of Service Configuration, Service Description and Service Status (??)</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>No, there is a semantic difference. �Get-Printer-Supported-Values returns the original manufacturer xxx-supported values while Get-Printer-Attributes returns the values as configured by the administrator of the printer - a configuration utility would use Get-Printer-Supported-Values to get the full set of values that can be configured and Get-Printer-Attributes to get the currently configured values.</div> <div><br></div><div>What we'd need is (effectively) a <service>DefaultConfiguration group in the Semantic Model to provide the same information.</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>6.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>Comment: - should the SM address subscriptions?</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>I think we need to for Cloud, at least.</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>7.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>ReleaseHeldNewFaxOutJobs does not exist. ReleaseHeldFaxOutJobs ( no 'new') is probably intended.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Correct.</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>8.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>Deactivate and Activate were dropped from the SM model. Do we really need these?</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>They are part of IPP already. �</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>9.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>It might be noted that Startup-Printer correlates to StartupService (FaxOut) of the System Control Service.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Done.</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>10.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"><span>�</span></span></span>Neither the SM FaxOut nor Common Semantics include an operation correlating to Reprocess-Job. It is not clear how this would act for FaxOut.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Same as for print I'd think - creates a new job as a copy of an existing one. �But ResubmitJob works that way and also accepts a new job ticket, avoiding the race condition for supplying new values before the job starts processing.</div> <div><br></div><div>Perhaps we should deprecate Reprocess-Job for IPP FaxOut and just have Resubmit-Job?</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>11.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"><span>�</span></span></span>Schedule-Job-After correlates to PromoteFaxOutJob. If the predecessor Job is specified, PromoteFaxOutJob acts the same way as the IPP Schedule-Job-After operation.</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Done.</div><div><br></div><div><div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>12.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"><span>�</span></span></span>There is no CancelFaxOutDocument in the FaxOut Service just a CancelFaxOutDocuments (note the 's') although the general semantics operations is Cancel<service>Document . Is this an error in the FaxOut Service spec?</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Probably.</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>13.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"><span>�</span></span></span>I find no IdentifyFaxOutService under FaxOut, Common Semantics or System Control Service. Should this be added to the SM FaxOut Service (and all other services) or perhaps to System Control Service?</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>It should be part of Common Semantics, with each service getting its own Identify<service>Service operation.</div><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" lang="EN-US"> <div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>14.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"><span>�</span></span></span>The FaxOut Service identifies the following operations that do not appear in the IPP FaxOut spec:<u></u><u></u></div> <div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 1in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>a.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>ResubmitFaxOutJob<u></u><u></u></div> <div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 1in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span>b.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'">��<span>�</span></span></span>ValidateFaxOutDocumentTicket</div> </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Yes, for some reason I missed adding those two operations to the table. Now added (for the next draft...)</div><div><br></div><div>....</div><div><br></div><div>I'll hold off on publishing a new draft until we've had a chance to review the current one, but perhaps we can discuss whether Restart-Job and Reprocess-Job belong in IPP FaxOut, then the next draft will be that much cleaner...</div> <div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div> <span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:'Andale Mono';word-spacing:0px"><span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:'Andale Mono';word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"> _________________________________________________________<br>Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System�Engineer, PWG Chair</div></span></span> </div> <br></div><div class="im"><br>-- <br>This message has been scanned for viruses and <br>dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/" target="_blank"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br>believed to be clean. </div></div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> mfd mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:mfd@pwg.org">mfd@pwg.org</a><br> <a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/mfd" target="_blank">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/mfd</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br> <br />-- <br />This message has been scanned for viruses and <br />dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is <br />believed to be clean.