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<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <base href="x-msg://239/"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/>  <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space'> <div class=Section1> Many years with DOD.  What contractors do is use their money on patentable ideas (that is the research)(and copyright material) and government money make the patent thing for the government use .  And since the government, by law, can use any <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> patent they do not worry if the contractor (or someone else) has a patent for items needed for a contract.  It is very fine line of “funded by the government contract” or “funded by the government contractor”.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Anyway this is out of scope for the PWG (the same as projectors and displays??)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet@apple.com] Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:56 PM To: Petrie, Glen Cc: cloud@pwg.org Subject: Re: [Cloud] NIST cloud defs<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div> On Apr 15, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Petrie, Glen wrote:<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p></o:p> <u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"> <div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space'> I disagree with Ira statement; tech people will want a definition of Cloud Printing and not be referred to some NIST definition on cloud computing which they associate with software not printing.  Unless NIST where to provide a definition for cloud printing (scan, copy), it is the PWG that provides printing related cloud definitions.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p> (The government does not have patents and contractors that work on government contracts can not patent work funded directly by the contract.  (That based on 15 years of research work for government contractors.)  Copyright fall in the same area.  I.e. a government photo can be copyrighted by the government. All work done by and directly funded by the government is in the public domain.)<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> </u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype> I guess you've never worked for the DoD then? In a former life I used to be a government contractor and copyright and patent issues were quite apparent, even 20 years ago...<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> <u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><u1:p></u1:p><u1:p> <div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>  </u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet@apple.com] Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 2:23 PM To: Petrie, Glen Cc: <a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org">cloud@pwg.org</a> Subject: Re: [Cloud] NIST cloud defs<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p> In general you can't assume that any data or document from the government is not copyrighted since contractors often hold joint copyright (and patents, etc.) with the government, and there are more contractors than civil service...<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div> <u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> In any case, based on Ira's statement I'm thinking we'll want to reference the NIST definitions and describe how Cloud Imaging fits in...<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div> <div> On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Petrie, Glen wrote:<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p></o:p> <u1:p></u1:p><u2:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"><u2:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"> <div link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space'> NIST is a <st1:country-region u3:st="on"><st1:place u3:st="on"><st1:country-region u4:st="on"><st1:place u4:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region> agency and, as so, work products are not copyrighted (I believe by law).  In fact their top page on cloud computing has the following statement.<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> “This material is public domain although attribution to NIST is requested. It may be freely duplicated and translated.”<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p>  So maybe we should ask a different question.   Do we want to (very) tightly align our definition with content from NIST?  I vote yes because it shows coherence/alignment/??? with existing or other organization. <u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> Note that the NIST definition and the one I propose are very high level and interpretation for “Imaging” is what is are address.<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> Glen<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> p.s. If I can find the contact information I will send a note.<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> gwp<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: Petrie, Glen Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:45 PM To: Petrie, Glen; Michael Sweet Cc: <a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org">cloud@pwg.org</a> Subject: RE: [Cloud] Fwd: NIST cloud defs<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> Sorry Mike,  I skipped over the part where you like the substance.   So I will send a note NIST folks.<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: <a href="mailto:cloud-bounces@pwg.org">cloud-bounces@pwg.org</a> [mailto:cloud-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of Petrie, Glen Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:41 PM To: Michael Sweet Cc: <a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org">cloud@pwg.org</a> Subject: RE: [Cloud] Fwd: NIST cloud defs<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> Your right about the “copying” but that can be addressed at a later date.  For the moment; is this the type of definition that was intended?  If not, can you or others suggest a couple to sentence on a definition?<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> I understand your point on ‘Imaging’ versus ‘Printing/Printer’; but can we put together a Print/Printing first at then see how to scope it for Imaging?<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> Glen<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet@apple.com] Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:15 PM To: Petrie, Glen Cc: <a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org">cloud@pwg.org</a> Subject: Re: [Cloud] Fwd: NIST cloud defs<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div> Glen,<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> While I like the substance of the definition, I am uneasy about copying their words like this - it would be good to contact the authors to get their written permission so that we credit them appropriately in the cloud model spec.<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Also, since we *are* doing Cloud Imaging, we probably want the definition to use Cloud Imaging instead of Cloud Printing and Imaging Device instead of Printer.<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Thanks!<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div> <div> On Apr 15, 2011, at 8:44 AM, Petrie, Glen wrote:<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <span style='orphans: 2;text-align:-webkit-auto;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing: 0px'> <div link=blue vlink=blue> <div> Based on the article referenced below I modified in an attempt to create a definition for cloud printing.   I thought it could be reviewed to see if could be useful definition.   In most cases, I literal changed “computing” to “printing” (or printer).  I also added a few print related items.<u5:p></u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u5:p> </u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <a href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/cloud/white/CloudPrintingDef_V01_-_A_Suggestion.doc">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/cloud/white/CloudPrintingDef_V01_-_A_Suggestion.doc</a><u5:p></u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <a href="ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/cloud/white/CloudPrintingDef_V01_-_A_Suggestion.pdf">ftp://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/cloud/white/CloudPrintingDef_V01_-_A_Suggestion.pdf</a><u5:p></u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u5:p> </u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> glen<u5:p></u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u5:p> </u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u5:p> </u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> <div> From: <a href="mailto:cloud-bounces@pwg.org">cloud-bounces@pwg.org</a> [mailto:cloud-bounces@pwg.org] On Behalf Of Ira McDonald Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 9:47 AM To: <a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org">cloud@pwg.org</a>; Ira McDonald Subject: [Cloud] Fwd: NIST cloud defs<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <u5:p></u5:p> <div> <u5:p> </u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p></o:p> </div> <u1:p></u1:p> <div><u2:p></u2:p> <u5:p></u5:p>---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brian Smithson <<a href="mailto:bsmithson@ricohsv.com">bsmithson@ricohsv.com</a>> Date: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 12:26 PM Subject: NIST cloud defs To: Ira McDonald <<a href="mailto:blueroofmusic@gmail.com">blueroofmusic@gmail.com</a>> To share at the meeting, if it's useful: <a href="http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/SNS/cloud-computing/cloud-def-v15.doc" target="_blank">http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/SNS/cloud-computing/cloud-def-v15.doc</a> -- Regards, Brian Smithson PMP, CSM, CISSP, CISA, ISO 27000 PA Security Research, Planning Advanced Customer Technologies Ricoh Americas Corporation <a href="mailto:bsmithson@ricohsv.com">bsmithson@ricohsv.com</a> <a href="tel:%28408%29346-4435">(408)346-4435</a><u5:p></u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <u5:p> </u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> --  This message has been scanned for viruses and  dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/">MailScanner</a>, and is  believed to be clean.<u5:p></u5:p><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> --  This message has been scanned for viruses and  dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/">MailScanner</a>, and is  believed to be clean. _______________________________________________ cloud mailing list <a href="mailto:cloud@pwg.org">cloud@pwg.org</a> <a href="https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud">https://www.pwg.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud</a><u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div><span style='orphans: 2;text-align:-webkit-auto;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing: 0px'> <div> __________________________________________________<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <u2:p> </u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/">MailScanner</a>, and is believed to be clean. <u2:p></u2:p><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </u2:smarttagtype></u2:smarttagtype> <u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p> <div><span style='orphans: 2;text-align:-webkit-auto;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing: 0px'> <div> __________________________________________________<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <u1:p> <o:p></o:p></u1:p> </div> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> </u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype> <div><span style='orphans: 2;text-align:-webkit-auto;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing: 0px'> <div> __________________________________________________<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Michael Sweet, Senior Printing System Engineer, PWG Chair<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by <a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/">MailScanner</a>, and is believed to be clean. </body> </html>